Advise for A New Logger

[M. Kulp]

Good Evening!
I am a young man in the tree care/firewood business in Northeast Texas, Emory to be exact. We are on the edge of the Plains, where the Post Oak belt, the Piney Wood, and the grasslands merge. I have been doing tree care for the last 2 years, firewood for 4. The opportunity has come to log 25 acres of medium size oak trees in a creek bottom. So, should I do it? Here is what I have to work with.....
Stihl 661 chainsaw..... Stihl 400cm chainsaw. John Deere 5075E 4x4 loader tractor with brush grapple. My CDL. A single axle dump truck with a 20' flat bed. Access to a semi with a 53' flat bed trailer. Pickup and gooseneck. Old Vermeer 1250BC chipper. 2 or three part time helpers.
The property is rentland for my cattle. The owner wants more usable pasture. It has a bunch of 16-24 inch oak trees in the fenced area where the cows are, and the other half of the property is creek bottom I've never walked through. The trees are bigger in there, but I think it is a mix of hardwood trees, post or white oak being the most valuable, i think. The creek bottom is pretty rough land. Access problems after a rain?
Here is what I am thinking. Do a selective cut of the pasture, leaving some smaller, nice trees for shade. Open it up from being 25 percent pasture to 80 percent pasture. Cut most of the trees in the creek area, leaving some good trees to keep growing for future harvest (the landowner is sorta a do-it-yourselfer). Clean up all the tops for firewood, and either burn or chip the brush.
There isn't much logging done in our area. I don't know of any mills. Anyone have contact info for log buyers in northeast texas?
How much can I expect to make for my effort, and how much to the landowner? A local farmer told me that he spent all he made on his lumber to clean up the area logged. Is that how it works?
Any other ways to sell logs other than to a big lumber mill?
Should i chip the branches, or pile and burn them
Should I even take the job? Or just stick to the work I know? I have been staying busy. But something different would be fun.

 

[northmanlogging]

Good Evening!
I am a young man in the tree care/firewood business in Northeast Texas, Emory to be exact. We are on the edge of the Plains, where the Post Oak belt, the Piney Wood, and the grasslands merge. I have been doing tree care for the last 2 years, firewood for 4. The opportunity has come to log 25 acres of medium size oak trees in a creek bottom. So, should I do it? Here is what I have to work with.....
Stihl 661 chainsaw..... Stihl 400cm chainsaw. John Deere 5075E 4x4 loader tractor with brush grapple. My CDL. A single axle dump truck with a 20' flat bed. Access to a semi with a 53' flat bed trailer. Pickup and gooseneck. Old Vermeer 1250BC chipper. 2 or three part time helpers.
The property is rentland for my cattle. The owner wants more usable pasture. It has a bunch of 16-24 inch oak trees in the fenced area where the cows are, and the other half of the property is creek bottom I've never walked through. The trees are bigger in there, but I think it is a mix of hardwood trees, post or white oak being the most valuable, i think. The creek bottom is pretty rough land. Access problems after a rain?
Here is what I am thinking. Do a selective cut of the pasture, leaving some smaller, nice trees for shade. Open it up from being 25 percent pasture to 80 percent pasture. Cut most of the trees in the creek area, leaving some good trees to keep growing for future harvest (the landowner is sorta a do-it-yourselfer). Clean up all the tops for firewood, and either burn or chip the brush.
There isn't much logging done in our area. I don't know of any mills. Anyone have contact info for log buyers in northeast texas?
How much can I expect to make for my effort, and how much to the landowner? A local farmer told me that he spent all he made on his lumber to clean up the area logged. Is that how it works?
Any other ways to sell logs other than to a big lumber mill?
Should i chip the branches, or pile and burn them
Should I even take the job? Or just stick to the work I know? I have been staying busy. But something different would be fun.

welp, there are markets in texas for logs, but I couldn't tell ya where or who to talk to, but I urge you to find them before committing to this project.

you might get away with using the single axle truck to haul logs with, if you add stakes or sides, the flat bed semi is useless without a proper log trailer, both are useless without a safe way to load logs, and that tractor isn't it. (it might lift logs, but its not even remotely safe or efficient)

As for equipment, the tractor with a skidding winch will work, mostly, but you will be a lot happier with a proper skidder or even a mid sized excavator. Tractors and forestry don't get along real well... its a very abusive relationship...

As for the actual logging, talk to a state forester if Texas has that sort of thing, some areas its a bad idea to cut to close to wet ground i.e. creeks/streams/rivers/swamps, every state is different, though I would leave trees near any moving water, at a minimum to control erosion.
For cleanup, chipping/grinding will eat any and all profit as well as taking considerably more from the money if any you get from the logs, stack the slash, and leave it, cut as much firewood as possible, or burn it all

Do find a mill, Do talk to them, make sure you understand what species they will buy, and what lengths they prefer, as well as what lengths they accept as well as diameters, every mill is set up a little different,
its also a pretty good Idea to get a basic understanding of scaling and grading logs, fastest way to lose money logging is to buck the logs to the wrong specs. Small end Diameter means more then overall length most of the time.

 

[Seachaser]

No idea on the logs, but if there are native pecan trees, leave them. Cows and pecans go good together. Leave 40 to 60 feet between them and a good second income for someone.

 

[M. Kulp]

Hey, thank y'all for your advice. I wish we had pecan trees on that place! Good for the cows, not to mention me! What about thinning the oak trees. Seems when we cut woods oak trees, and just leave one here and there, that the ones we leave end up dying too. I would want to leave some for shade and soil control. Any advice as to how to keep them alive?
Where to find those commercial mills is my trouble. There are several bandmill operators in the area that buy an occasional log, if I find good ones, but a logging project would overwhelm them! Does Phillips Forest Products have a mill that might buy? Anybody have experience working with them?
How about a skid steer, grapple bucket arrangement for loading? Most of the trees are small enough, I think.
Thanks in advance!

 

[northmanlogging]

Hey, thank y'all for your advice. I wish we had pecan trees on that place! Good for the cows, not to mention me! What about thinning the oak trees. Seems when we cut woods oak trees, and just leave one here and there, that the ones we leave end up dying too. I would want to leave some for shade and soil control. Any advice as to how to keep them alive?
Where to find those commercial mills is my trouble. There are several bandmill operators in the area that buy an occasional log, if I find good ones, but a logging project would overwhelm them! Does Phillips Forest Products have a mill that might buy? Anybody have experience working with them?
How about a skid steer, grapple bucket arrangement for loading? Most of the trees are small enough, I think.
Thanks in advance!

skid steer is better then a tractor but not by much, and only cause you have a cage, biggest issue is lift height, need to be able to reach 12-14' and be able to place a log 9' away. Even my 120 excavator has trouble with that, and I've done my fair share of it.
There are a couple bigger mills in the Texarkana and eastern texas areas, but texas is a very large piece of dirt to cover...
as for leaving oaks, your state forester would be the guy to talk to, though its largely a judgement call, trees don't like being disturbed, so if you can leave more rather then less and it lessens the shock to the remaining trees, as well as help hold ground moisture, and better shade etc.

 

[northmanlogging]

and by lift height, its both a power and a physically being able to lift xx height, the higher you reach the more power it takes, and most excavators are only meant to load dumB trucks with dirt generally with sides 10-12' tall, not chucking logs with the boom straight out and extended... things get awkward in a hurry.

Skid steers can usually only reach the one side of a dumB truck, tractors... even a big one can't do much better, so you end up just sort of tossing the logs at the truck... not ideal...
Anyway, if there is a mill in the area, then there are self loading log trucks too, so its a moot point, as long as there is a mill close enough to be worth the effort.

 

[mikewhite85]

I do residential and commercial tree work and have wondered about getting into logging in the winter months.

Several mills around here have their own log loader trucks that will come and pick up logs, which is way better than you hauling them with a dump truck. You typically need 30-50 logs to fill a truck depending on size and length. The shortest you can do is 8'6" which Is what my tractor and skidder winch can handle.

Definitely check in with your local state forester who will also be able to tell you about local mills.

Having said all this, I really don't know much about logging as I'm in the same boat as you!

 

[M. Kulp]

Hey, thanks, Mike! I'll check with the forester, if I can find one

 

[irhunter]

Good Evening!
I am a young man in the tree care/firewood business in Northeast Texas

Should I even take the job? Or just stick to the work I know? I have been staying busy. But something different would be fun.

I suggest, as your first move into cutting timber, you find a job working for someone who knows what they're doing. Pay attention...learn the ropes while getting paid a wage...

Roy

 

[Treecounter]

Hey, thank y'all for your advice. I wish we had pecan trees on that place! Good for the cows, not to mention me! What about thinning the oak trees. Seems when we cut woods oak trees, and just leave one here and there, that the ones we leave end up dying too. I would want to leave some for shade and soil control. Any advice as to how to keep them alive?
Where to find those commercial mills is my trouble. There are several bandmill operators in the area that buy an occasional log, if I find good ones, but a logging project would overwhelm them! Does Phillips Forest Products have a mill that might buy? Anybody have experience working with them?
How about a skid steer, grapple bucket arrangement for loading? Most of the trees are small enough, I think.
Thanks in advance!

I know a couple of guys suggested that you talk to your state forester to get a feel for markets, etc. He or she should be well-versed in forest management, too. They may answer some of your questions about which trees to harvest and how many, depending on objectives. Unfortunately, the vast majority of timber on private land is harvested without the benefit of professional forestry management, and this is when big mistakes can happen (and too often do). If you think that you may want to pursue logging, now is a great time to train your eye to look for opportunities to manage the resource while you are at it.