How to use your saws sights

[smokechase II]

The safest thing

For a learning cutter viewing this thread please make the say no and bring in a bonded pro decision when there is any reason to be concerned with a particular tree or stand.

Thanks

 

[BarkBuster20]

IN respose to more looking up!
Yeah I agree he could've been up a little higher to make it easier to look up, but given his stature it looks to me like that's overall a pretty comfortable position for him, I know I wouldn't want to be working up much more than that, especially all day. I understand the safety factor You're getting across, and think You bring a good true point to light. I about got sick the other day I went into my local Stihl shop to get some parts, a new salesman approached me with a 460 in his fat hands, and said You need this saw for around the farm, I was dressed in clean nice clothes, he told me the sights on it make it real easy to put a tree where You want it, and how easy it is to start. He had no idea if I even knew how to start one. I told him to F off and walked away. I think he knows me now. I remember a time when they didn't have fancy sights on the saws like they do now.

something simular happened to me a few months back but i told the fat #### to #### off before he could give me a sales pitch. i was walking back to the counter to pay for a new bar i had already picked out before he had caught up to me. then he asks "oh ya got a 36 inch cannon bar huh?" and i had a 30 inch cannon bar in my hand, he never got a response out of me. i cant stand being jumped as soon as i walk in the door.

 

[oregoncutter]

For a learning cutter viewing this thread please make the say no and bring in a bonded pro decision when there is any reason to be concerned with a particular tree or stand.

Thanks

That cures up alot of it!

 

[Greystoke]

Smokechase, you and I have gone at it before and I admit that you are a good guy, but you over analyze everything.
You would not make it my world, and I would not make it yours.

:agree2:I guarantee I can stand with good posture while making a humboldt with a dangerous widow maker or whatever else in it...I have done it thousands of times. Sling'r is bang on...I would have never made it in your world, which is why I never wanted to fall timber on a fire, because I did not want somebody trying to tell me how it is done out of a government manual, as I learned from the best fallers in the world...hands down.

 

[bullbuck]

:agree2:I guarantee I can stand with good posture while making a humboldt with a dangerous widow maker or whatever else in it...I have done it thousands of times. Sling'r is bang on...I would have never made it in your world, which is why I never wanted to fall timber on a fire, because I did not want somebody trying to tell me how it is done out of a government manual, as I learned from the best fallers in the world...hands down.

i have fell few a few years,and take pride in my cuts being spot on,got on a fire a few years back and got to watch a hotshot go for his "cfaller certification"over 2'dbh?i could be wrong,anyhow the guy certifying this guy you could just tell was green,so anyways the guy nailed the cut lay etc,he even lined the backcut up flush or even a chain width low wich brings up that fine fiber on the hinge,i thought he did good,well greeny flunked the guy,couldnt believe it!the guy knew i had done some falling and asked me what he did wrong,i told him not a firkin thing!this was the guys second try and he was the best faller i had seen in a burn to this day.

 

[Metals406]

Another thing to point out is stump hight limitations, especially on a FS contract. Max stump hight of 12" on grade, or 12" high-side on a slope. I'm 6'-4", so I'll be cutting on one knee for that.

DBH cut's would be nice, though you're leaving a lot of wood there; whether for milling, firewood, etc.

I do high-stump sometimes, though it's situational, and for different reasons.

There has been no bad info on this thread so far, all of it is pertinent in it's own application.

 

[Metals406]

i have fell few a few years,and take pride in my cuts being spot on,got on a fire a few years back and got to watch a hotshot go for his "cfaller certification"over 2'dbh?i could be wrong,anyhow the guy certifying this guy you could just tell was green,so anyways the guy nailed the cut lay etc,he even lined the backcut up flush or even a chain width low wich brings up that fine fiber on the hinge,i thought he did good,well greeny flunked the guy,couldnt believe it!the guy knew i had done some falling and asked me what he did wrong,i told him not a firkin thing!this was the guys second try and he was the best faller i had seen in a burn to this day.

Heard them kind of stories more than once. . . Rookies certifying guys that are real pro fallers.

 

[bullbuck]

Heard them kind of stories more than once. . . Rookies certifying guys that are real pro fallers.

well the rookie was certainly a rookie,and the guy was no pro but you can tell when a guy has done his homework,what i think the difference in the woods and the burn,is how much time is allowed for falling,if i took that long to sum up a two foot sugarpine?ya not good,anyways i seen mecicans one cut trees bigger than that

 

[Metals406]

well the rookie was certainly a rookie,and the guy was no pro but you can tell when a guy has done his homework,what i think the difference in the woods and the burn,is how much time is allowed for falling,if i took that long to sum up a two foot sugarpine?ya not good,anyways i seen mecicans one cut trees bigger than that

Yeah, a guy can really over-analyze the cut and drop, I'm even guilty of it. . . I'm an anal person, and it comes out in my work. I do it in carpentry, welding, and falling trees.

I like making good stumps, and hitting the mark. . . Adding speed to it is definitely a bonus.

 

[slowp]

Yes, on a timber sale, NOT a fire, you need to have stumps under 12 inches
measured on the high side of the hill. I've listed the acceptable reasons to have higher stumps before, there are times/situations when stumps will be high. But if you were cutting each tree at dbh, we'd be having a talk about it, and you might be going home early.

 

[hammerlogging]

Smokechase, you and I have gone at it before and I admit that you are a good guy, but you over analyze everything.
You would not make it my world, and I would not make it yours.

It was nice you alll can handle being critical, yet friendly.

Since I come from open face country-you can adjust your aim cause once you're a little in your vertical face cut you can.ouble check your aim and start over if its a hair off from what you intended

I am usually on steep ground. I am usually facing and most of my boring on the "bad" downhill side under the lean.(cause I'm sidesloping, to whatever degree I want). That way I can stand while doing these things. If on uphill side, facing is on one knee, and boring is all bent over. Either way, then you get behind the tree, nip the holding wood and escape. Low stumps either way, unless obvious signs of decay down low.

Don't cut much from under the lean unless you really know how to identify good hingewood, how much lean is too much, know your alternative escape routes. But for a productiuon faller, ride that skillset to up production. As identifiable hazards multiply, we go clser and closer to "by the book".

 

[bullbuck]

Yeah, a guy can really over-analyze the cut and drop, I'm even guilty of it. . . I'm an anal person, and it comes out in my work. I do it in carpentry, welding, and falling trees.

I like making good stumps, and hitting the mark. . . Adding speed to it is definitely a bonus.

i hear you,that is a very good trait to have pride breeds quality work,and once you can add in a little speed thats even better,i never "really"learned how to fall until i skidded for a few years,now i can skid my own stuff real good,get double sometime triple chokes,coming off the hill sometimes with 12 14 logs on a ten choke cat because i know where the bucks and stumps are in my mind

 

[smokechase II]

Advantages

"Since I come from open face country-you can adjust your aim cause once you're a little in your vertical face cut you can.ouble check your aim and start over if its a hair off from what you intended."

==============

The advantages to faces other than open face is that you only have to concentrate once on the direction, at the finish of the horizontal cut. Plus you can really fine tune it by looking down the sights toward the target.

Looking at where open face technique came from one can see why it could be the way it is.

Smaller diameter trees in second growth stands and shorter in Northern Latitudes. This means accuracy 140 feet out isn't an issue etc. So sighting from above in a managed (reasonably well spaced) forest is generally OK.
{Also, the hazards in a managed second growth forest are far less.}

================

Annie Oakley shot from the hip and was accurate. Seriously accurate. I've seen some expert marksmen on TV that just amazed me. They aren't looking down the sights at the target.
No doubt there are many that do the Open Face well for accuracy.

I'm just trying to promote "Don't make it difficult". Expecting everyone to do it the hard way doesn't make sense.



So on the tree by tree size up. Consider how difficult a technique could be.

 

[smokechase II]

Terminology

Bad side of the tree.

=============

"I am usually on steep ground. I am usually facing and most of my boring on the "bad" downhill side under the lean.


You've found what works for you and that is more than fine.

But Open Face terminology is making a mistake refering to the compression side of a tree as the bad side.
Focus here is on difficulty and not danger.
Being a safety guy I've gotta ask for some relief on that. For one thing it gives the impression that the good side of a tree is good to work on. That could well be the side with hazards that must be avoided. Neither side may be 'good'.

===================

Let's look at training for fallers in the US.

I think its a serious enough of a job that it should be similar to what an Electrician goes through.

For Fallers I would suggest: Classroom/field basic certification/journeyman for at least two years/field final certification. I think BC is doing something similar, although most who have done the job would want more field experience than they require for newbees.

Without the field experience putting folks through four layers of GOL they could become believers in what they have been taught but ignorant of what is available elsewhere.

Good and bad side terms that don't deal with safety?
Come on?

 

[Metals406]

Yes, on a timber sale, NOT a fire, you need to have stumps under 12 inches
measured on the high side of the hill. I've listed the acceptable reasons to have higher stumps before, there are times/situations when stumps will be high. But if you were cutting each tree at dbh, we'd be having a talk about it, and you might be going home early.

Yup, that's what I was saying--that's why I said FS contracts. The DBH cutting can be a limited use technique.

You and I have spoken about acceptable high-stumping before, one of which was decking logs on the downhill side of the road, when no landing space is available. . . I've done that many times.

Smoke has made a lot of good points about looking up. . . I think he posted a video once, about how fast branches and tops can get ya. . . In the video, they used a spotter with an airhorn, and it wasn't fast enough to alert the sawyer. The only thing that worked the best was the sawyer looking up, and that was nip-tuck.

 

[hammerlogging]

I'm with you dude

 

[Gologit]

Yes, on a timber sale, NOT a fire, you need to have stumps under 12 inches
measured on the high side of the hill. I've listed the acceptable reasons to have higher stumps before, there are times/situations when stumps will be high. But if you were cutting each tree at dbh, we'd be having a talk about it, and you might be going home early.

Now I know how to get off work early.

 

[2dogs]

Yup, that's what I was saying--that's why I said FS contracts. The DBH cutting can be a limited use technique.

You and I have spoken about acceptable high-stumping before, one of which was decking logs on the downhill side of the road, when no landing space is available. . . I've done that many times.

Smoke has made a lot of good points about looking up. . . I think he posted a video once, about how fast branches and tops can get ya. . . In the video, they used a spotter with an airhorn, and it wasn't fast enough to alert the sawyer. The only thing that worked the best was the sawyer looking up, and that was nip-tuck.

Look at some Sim-Limb videos and you can see why I try to stand up when falling snags. Live healthy trees are another matter. They get a low Humboldt.

 

[smokechase II]

He was right

Here are a couple pics showing that part of the falling world that TreeSlingr said he couldn't make it in:

Just to give the Forest Circus some credit.

 

[bullbuck]

good thing jeff s had his hardhat on,haha