Hung up Red Elm

[3fordasho]

So I'd been eyeing a good size standing dead red elm (~30") - but with live trees all around I left it until all other standing dead were removed.
No clear drop zone and the land owner didn't want live trees taken out if possible. Well couple weeks ago I picked my best drop zone and gave it a go hoping it would find it's way to the ground - ended up hanging it up but good. Standing dead elm loves to hang up - the vase shape and not much weight at the top makes it a common occurance in the overgrown woodlot. This is a pretty remote area and with the owner aware I gave it some time to come down on it's own - no joy - a recent storm did break off a main branch, it fell so it was almost standing vertical and the main trunk came off the stump but that's as much as mother nature was going to do for me. Had a half a day free yesterday so brought the bobcat out and pulled the broken off branch and the rest down - got a full load in my F450 with 12' bed and there's still more to collect.

Also like to note this is the first trip to the woods for my S185 bobcat- I thought it did well in fairly wet conditions - this area had multiple 2-3" rains that ended last Friday and there is a raging creek about 150' away. The tires did spin when trying to pull the entire tree but once I cut off a couple 8' sections off the main trunk it did just fine and pulled the balance of the tree out of the hang up. No tracks or chains - tires have close to new tread.

 

[Whitespider]

That's a nice bit of firewood... but...
The size of the stump/tree, the buttress roots, and the sheets of bark laying on the ground tell me without doubt it ain't Red (Slippery) Elm... pretty darn sure it's American Elm.
A 12 inch Red elm is a big one.... a 15 inch Red Elm is a bona fide monster...
*

 

[zogger]

Well, good for you you got it down safe and didn't get stuck! Lot of wood there!

 

[3fordasho]

That's a nice bit of firewood... but...
The size of the stump/tree, the buttress roots, and the sheets of bark laying on the ground tell me without doubt it ain't Red (Slippery) Elm... pretty darn sure it's American Elm.
A 12 inch Red elm is a big one.... a 15 inch Red Elm is a bona fide monster...
*

Here are pics of the wood from this tree- pretty sure it's not american elm, and I have not run across any Siberian at this site:

 

[Wood Doctor]

American elm makes very good firewood. Dried in the round for 6 months after cut green, it will split rather well. If standing dead, it will split well after drying for a month.

 

[Whitespider]

Here are pics of the wood from this tree- pretty sure it's not american elm, and I have not run across any Siberian at this site:

That's definitely not Red Elm, and lookin' at the pictures I'm 99.6% sure it American Elm... and it's been dead for a good bit of time.
The growth rings are a dead give-a-way... and Red Elm is darker than that.
*

 

[Whitespider]

These porous rings scream American Elm that's been standing-dead long enough to draw-up and lose moisture several times... the porous rings are the beginning of rot. That stuff is gonna split (relatively) beautifully for you (as elm goes anyway)... and burn beautifully. You've harvested it at as near to perfect timing as it gets... but it ain't Red Elm.

 

[3fordasho]

I always thought american elm was a much whiter wood (with a darker brown center stain - at least when cut green) - Does it change to the light red coloration as it dries out standing dead? And yes it does split nicely. I have cut much smaller elms that had deeper red coloration and tighter rings - I guess that would be true red elm?

These porous rings scream American Elm that's been standing-dead long enough to draw-up and lose moisture several times... the porous rings are the beginning of rot. That stuff is gonna split (relatively) beautifully for you (as elm goes anyway)... and burn beautifully. You've harvested it at as near to perfect timing as it gets... but it ain't Red Elm.

View attachment 356597

 

[haveawoody]

A couple of the smaller rounds look like rock elm with the brownish core typical to rock elm.
All the big Rounds look like American elm though.

Splits look like Rock elm with very few strings.
A tree that has been standing dead for a very long time sure can make for a difficult id and this is the case with this long dead tree.

I'm 50/50 on what you have.
100% sure it's not Red Elm.

Take a thin sliver and spark a lighter under it then blow it out, Rock Elm smoke has a very pleasant woodsy smells and American Elm smoke has a little bit of an odd smell, not unpleasant but not like most wood smoke.

 

[Whitespider]

It ain't Rock Elm... the odds of finding a 30 inch Rock Elm (even standing-dead) in southern Minnesota are infinitesimal. Typically, Rock Elm will be even smaller than Red Elm, and normally is found growing in areas not populated with American and Red Elm... often growing in limestone where other elms can't make a life. Also, Rock Elm does not have the characteristic branching pattern of American and Red; the crown is more oblong with branches growing out from a well defined straight trunk, rather than the characteristic "crotching" elm pattern most people think of... a standing-dead Rock Elm wouldn't even be recognizable as an elm to most people.

3fordasho,
Yeah, American Elm wood from standing-dead can be almost paper white... or gray, tan, brown, pinkish, reddish-brown, yellowish, even greenish-orange... or any combination of them in a single tree. It will also have streaks of staining and color change... exactly like in your pictures of the noodled rounds. Even your smaller "split" round shows the streaking stains. I can't tell you what makes the different colors... but I suspect it has to do with soil conditions, moisture, how long it's been dead, and even genetics. Standing-dead Red (Slippery) Elm will be much a more consistent sort'a reddish-brown in color, but the "darkness" of that color will vary from tree-to-tree... for whatever reason.

All of this streaking, staining and color change is classic standing-dead American Elm... you won't see it in Red Elm (unless it's been dead long enough to become worthlessly punky).

 

[3fordasho]

I guess I've cut alot of american elm that I thought was red elm ;-) Doesn't matter, when the wood looks like this one does.. it makes for some darn nice firewood... about 50% ready to burn now

Never came across a Rock Elm in this area of any size. This lot does have quite a few Kentucy Coffee Tree which I thought was quite unusual for this area- unfortunately they are all living so I can't cut em :-( Except for the one "casulity" from other tree removals ;-)

 

[Whitespider]

RED (SLIPPERY) ELM
Note how thin the bark is... much thinner than American Elm.



This last picture is of some standing-dead Red (Slippery) Elm that I cut a couple years ago.
This tree had been dead for several years, and still not punky or rotten... notice the grain is still tight and the color consistently reddish-brown throughout, without staining and streaking.
Sorry... I couldn't find the picture of rounds from the main trunk.

 

[3fordasho]

Nice pics- thanks. I've definately run into some red elm here, and thinking back it fits your descriptors pretty well. The thing that threw me for a loop is the color change in american elm after its been dead a while. ID of the live stuff is a bit more straight forward.
Last summer I picked up some ~10" dia. elm logs that were laying directly on the ground for some time (several years), tight growth rings and the same coloration as your pics - could not belive how solid it still was, made for some nice firewood but it did take a while to get it dried out.

RED (SLIPPERY) ELM
Note how thin the bark is... much thinner than American Elm.

View attachment 356685 View attachment 356686 View attachment 356687 View attachment 356688 View attachment 356689

This last picture is of some standing-dead Red (Slippery) Elm that I cut a couple years ago.
This tree had been dead for several years, and still not punky or rotten... notice the grain is still tight and the color consistently reddish-brown throughout, without staining and streaking.
Sorry... I couldn't find the picture of rounds from the main trunk.

View attachment 356690

 

[haveawoody]

Whitespider,

I thought the same, all the big rounds tell a story of American elm.
A few of the branch rounds really look like the classic rock elm colors but I think you are right that it's just staining from the wood sitting and shrinking.
If I saw one of the branch rounds without the bark and big rounds to look at I would have said Rock.

Sure looks like it's going to split up semi easy and make for some toastey fires soon after.