ISA certification

[JohnVander]

Hi Everyone,
Recently I've become set on pursuing arborist certification. I was told I needed to get the ISA study guide as curricllum for the test. Are there subjects covered in the test not covered in the book? I'm assuming there wil be an ID section to the test as well the written, is it reigon specific or is it "world wide" in scope. Will I need to know more than genus and species? What is the basic rundown on the test?

Thanks ahead of time,
John

 

[jimmyq]

Hi John, ISA study guide is a definate good idea as is Harris' book on arboriculture. The exam is 200 multiple guess questions including 10 on ID. The ID list should be provided to you by ISA prior to your test, usually it is 100 trees and you will be tested on 10 of them in picture form, or actual plant parts on exam day. The study guide touches on all parts of the exam but doesn't give every detail needed, the industry experience is a big asset when writing the test as there are a number of backward, twisted around double false answers that can get confusing. I was told to expect not to pass every domain on the first try and to be ready to rewrite a domain or two and not to get too churned up prior to the test. My one domain rewrite took all of four minutes to finish after a night out of town and 3 hours drive away, once your done, your done, then all you have to do is keep up your CEU's and never write the test again. Best luck.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Get the study guide and take the sample tests at the end of each section. That'll tell you what you know. The questions are just like the ones on the test.
The ID isn't as bad as you might imagine because it's mulitple guess. There'll be a branch laying there and you just need to pick which of the 5 it is. If you take the test in the winter, you probably won't get leaves, just a branch.
Good luck.

 

[Dadatwins]

Originally posted by JohnVander
Hi Everyone,
Recently I've become set on pursuing arborist certification.

I am new to this forum also but have been doing treework for 20+years and recently became certified. My opinion about certification is that you need to ask WHY am I doing this first. Prepare yourself for some expenses Cost me about $500.00 for test, study guides, and prep classes. Cost money to get CEU to continue to hold certification, classes, books, videos, training, etc. So far that has cost about $200.00 and I have not reached total CEU yet. My reason to get certified was advancement in current job. It is not a requirement but put me ahead of everyone else. Certificate also looks good to homeowner vs. the guy in the pick-up with the pole saw. Although pick-up guy might be better treeman. I guess my point is think about it as investment and return. Will you book more work with certificate maybe, but if you are bad tree-man it will not help. As stated in other threads on this subject ISA does not regulate members. As long as you SAY you have 3 years experience they ALLOW you to pay money and take their test. I took pre-test class an 1/2 the people there had NEVER climbed a tree. Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[JohnVander]

I've worked in the Hort (nursery, maintenance, installation) industry for a number of years, now, for a couple of years I've had my own (pickup truck) do all type of landscaping company. I don't mind mowing a lawn for a little cash (if you get a crew going alot of cash), I really enjoy doing yard overhauls and design, but what attracts me most is tree work. I was fortunate to work at a nursery that promoted education, and got a good grasp on plant ID and basic pruning, however it did not prepare me for tree felling, drop crotching at 25' in the air, evaluating rot or insect damage, spraying ect. ect. the only real source of practical information on tree work I was able to find was G. Beranek's The Fundamentals of General Tree Work. From the photos and text of that book, I've tried to learn the tecniques of required of a good tree man, but alas it wasn't enough I felt uncomfortable with my gaps in knowledge, felt some real fear when I was working at hights above 35', got downright terrified when peicing out a large (newly dead) white pine, when the wind started to blow, I didn't know when the sway would turn into snap (rip JSV). I started to become dissolutioned with my prospects in the tree industry. It seemed to me that there where two types of guys who got to do the fun work, guys with forestry degrees who come out of school and get hired on at the big tree companies, and logger trained guys who's training on the job speaks for its self, I was neither, and at 33, having owned my own business, I wasn't about to drag limbs to the chipper for two years to get some reps doing more advanced tree work. I basically shelved any idea of making a good living at tree work untill I just happened to pass the ISA booth at the Northwest Flower and Garden show and decided to talk to the guy there. He told me that he made a good living working with small to medium sized trees, was busy all the time and didn't even own a a chipper! He told me that I could learn via the trade via the ISA (he didn't say anything about heavy tree work) and build a business without a huge cash investment. This sounded great to me, I wouldn't have to work inside all day at a desk, I could really push my learning, and still make a good living working with trees! What could be better? I am pursuing certification because it seems like the knowledge required to pass the test whould be a fondation to build on and would lend more prestige to my credentials (better skills, better work,= I don't feel bad about asking for more money).

Sorry about being longwinded,
John

 

[Dadatwins]

You sound like you have some ambition but to me might be confused about tree business. Couple of different kinds of tree worker out there,
1 - guys that log all day and can clear cut acres of land and not ever see a house or pavement probably not certified since preservation is not top of list
2 - hack & slash climbers that spike everything will cut anything for a buck not certified and could care less
3 - pro climber who has been doing tree work for most of his life,started out chipping and dragging brush and learned by watching and doing, may or may not be certified but doesn't matter because he/she gets the work since they are good at it.
4 - degree guy who is book smart, read all about it, has multiple certifications but does not have lot of pratical knowledge of tree work itself. There are exceptions but few.
Getting certified might be good step in career but general climbing is only a small part of test. There are certified arborist who have never climbed a tree. This is FACT. Book by Jerry B. great start he is one of the best in the business from all I have heard. I would suggest looking around for good tree co. in your area (see #3 above) or maybe ask someone on commercial site where to find one and watch and learn. My point is as I said in previous post think of certification as investment and sales tool. The only way to really learn this business and be comfortable at it is to do it.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I'm number three!

 

[NeTree]

Me three...

but we all know a few #2's and #4's, don't we?

 

[Stumper]

Brian,-I see your great frustration in post after post. There may be no cure where you are at (meaning both geographically and as a contract climber) but FWIW I find people who are just THRILLED to find someone who can explain what they are planning to do and the reasons for it. I do get a few who get mad because I won't top their tree or remove all the branchs up to 30 feet. I also have some who think-"whatever,.... so long as it isn't touching the roof anymore and I can afford you." But I get respect and reccomendations based on expertise and professionalism. And I'm not kidding about some being thrilled-Some of my customers get excited to the point that they seem about to burst, grabbing spouses and neighbors and saying "This guy really knows what he's doing!"or something similar. It is very gratifying. I wish a healthy dose of it on you!:angel:

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by JohnVander
I am pursuing certification because it seems like the knowledge required to pass the test whould be a fondation to build on

Great idea. Certification is more and more required to get good contracts, and the public is more and more aware that it means something.
I don't agree with the watch and learn approach; better to do and learn by working with www.plantamnesty.org on some of their volunteer workdays. great place to meet good tree people in the Seattle area.

Dadatwins' #1-4 is roughly true but all #3's would benefit from more booklearning/certification. The #2's are (very) gradually dying out. I'm a #3-4, not having a green degree but I read about everything that comes out on tree care and try to put what appeals to me into practice. Rocky's got a halfapoint about consultants not doing well in production work; it's hard to switch gears sometimes. Most often being a hybrid works great tho.

The big myth is that climbers are too dumb to speak with authority about tree care, and all folks with a forestry degree can. I know a lot of degreed foresters who don't know diddly about caring for individual trees. Several posters here can/are stepping out and sharing their experience beyond the forums.

So anyway Vander search the archives here for specific questions and connect with the ISA and I hope it works well for you. Your youth is an advantage for you!

 

[Dadatwins]

RockyJ sounds a lot like me about 7 years ago when I decided to pack it in and move. Got so tired of doing jobs that no else would do and having homeowners complain that I overcharged them. People today want things done yesterday for nothing. Takes the heart out of business to show up with 20k worth of equipment and insurance and lose job for $20 bucks to guy in old honda with chain saw.
I got back into it with stump machine to make some extra$$ only but bitter taste will never go away.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by Stumper
Some of my customers get excited to the point that they seem about to burst, grabbing spouses and neighbors and saying "This guy really knows what he's doing!"or something similar. It is very gratifying.

Is it ever! People do respond to someone who can communicate understanding and caring about their trees. There are a lot of people like that out there; with a growing rep and good referrals and a positive attitude you can make a good living by adding value to their trees.
Yeah we've all had down times; if i had $20k of eqpt to pay for I might be having some now! Keep your payments down and your knowledge up and find a higher niche and you can't miss, imho.

 

[NeTree]

Guy, since you mentioned it:

I think alot of guys may start out with good intentions, but get caught up "needing" to do work they wouldn't want to do to otherwise because they financed everything the use, and HAVE to make the payments.

I learned long ago that even it it bites, you're best to buy things outright. All of my equipment is paid for. I have more motivation to "keep a clean rep" because I can afford to turn down work I think is BS. I'm also less affected by the busy/not busy times, since I don't have to make anything but the staple payments that I'd have to make no matter who owns the stuff, like insurance, registrations, GL/PL/WC etc.

Have you seen guys caught up like that? Or...?

 

[JohnVander]

Here in Seattle we have some pretty large trees located in both the city and suburbs. It seems we have a hybrid of of the 1 and 3 here because the skills of a logger are pretty usefull when dealing with a 100+' trees that need to be laid down in close quarters . And a question, how would a climber get up 65' of bare trunk on a Doug fir to do some sail reduction without spikes?

Thanks everyone for your input, you guys have been entertaining, and informative.

John

 

[ORclimber]

Hmmm... guess I'm somewhere between 3 and 4. Have a degree, love reading books. Started dragging brush for $7 an hour post degree and worked my way up running crews for 3 different co's. One co. specialized in removals, another pruning, and of course Asplundh.


I learned long ago that even it it bites, you're best to buy things outright.

Yea, that's been my motto. I've never had a car payment. Put 20% down on a house and took out a 15 year mortgage. Always paid cash or paid the visa off at the end of the month for business expenses.

I've gotta chip truck that is killing me though. $2000 in engine work, $2700 in hoist work, over $1000 in brakes, some things I'm blocking out, it needs new leaf springs, and some steering work. The chip box was welded to the frame so the frame will likely break again. Oh yea, from the cab back is a late 60's 1 1/4 ton. That really screws the mechanics up when they try to order parts for a '79. I now carry a visa balance because of this POS. And the down time has been brutal, especially with a month backlog. I'm tired of sinking $ into something I don't want.

Time to take out a loan(the check came last Sat.) and buy a real truck, and focus on what I do best, treework.

What's this thread about anyway

 

[NeTree]

OR, at least you can unload it with a clear title.

 

[ORclimber]

Originally posted by JohnVander
And a question, how would a climber get up 65' of bare trunk on a Doug fir to do some sail reduction without spikes?

John

Big shot, get a running bowline around one or more of those big fat branches and climb SRT. If you can't get good line placement, well....

 

[ORclimber]

Originally posted by netree
OR, at least you can unload it with a clear title.

Yea, it would probably be a good truck for someone who is mechanically inclined and has the time to work on it. I'll give full disclosure, so it will go with a clear conscience too.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

There must be #5 & #6 too. I don't fit in those groups.

-Over 20 years full-time in the field experience.
-College education
-Double Certification
-Broad range experience from tree work to country clubs, university campuses, landscape contractors.
-Trained by experienced professionals with degrees in agronomy, forestry, ornamental hort, plant pathology, landscape management
-Previous licensed pesicide consultant

So I'll take group #5.

Anyhow, going back to the first post - it was not that long ago that I sat throught the ISA test. The subject least covered by the study guide, was pesticide related information.

In our area, at Portland Community College, the pesticides class, and the weeds, insects and plant disease classes would cover that. Certainly that's not the only way, but it's a good way. In fact, so good, that I've retaken the Pesticides course 3 times for CEUs for the pesticide license.

I dropped my pesticide licenses lately. I don't like to do commercial spray work anymore. Totally tired of it. But I like to maintain my abilities to consult and evaluate - I refer the spraying to two companies that specialize in pesticide work.

ID - the plant list for the region, obviously is not in the study guide. What I will share is that the photos were very good quality (photos were used in the test I was at)

 

[lawmart]

im with you must be a 5.
But i have no landscape abilities, my schooling came from forestry at lake head University, had to move in to the city, to be with a woman ,then i maried her so that work out well