Killing Lombardi Populars

[Curbside]

I have a job to do that requires 31 Lombardi Poplars to be taken down. The reason is the top 2/3's has already died off. Since they started dying off the root system has gone into overdrive and are creating surface roots and shoots everywhere in their yard. The yard is well manicured and well kept. Stump removal will be done but is their any way to kill off the root structure to stop the suckering. I have heard that poisoning trees are possible. Does it actully work. How good are the results? What type of herbicide is required? How and when is it applied. Thanks.

 

[jomoco]

It took me 3 years of bi-annual applications of round-up on the inevitable shoots that sprouted after the stumps were ground on a high end condo project here in La Jolla CA.

The only way not to lose money on such projects involving poplars is to specifically state in the contract that any poplar sprouts that occur after stump grinding will be poisoned every 6 months as required at a set daily rate.

When in doubt go with an agreed upon daily rate for follow up sprout abatement.

Good Luck!

jomoco

 

[ClimbinArbor]

stump killer

see Tordon

 

[Curbside]

Have you had any experince with Tordon. Did you apply it to a freshly treated stump or did you spot spray as shoots started up? How well did it work?

 

[rbtree]

The best way to kill root sprouts is to poison the trees before removing them. This can allow better translocation into the roots. Works best in the fall when trees are going dormant. use a series of as vertical as possible kerf cuts around the stem. Spray or pour in undiluted RU...

I hate the smell of Tordon..haven't used it for 15 years. Round-Up works well enough.

 

[jomoco]

The best way to kill root sprouts is to poison the trees before removing them. This can allow better translocation into the roots. Works best in the fall when trees are going dormant. use a series of as vertical as possible kerf cuts around the stem. Spray or pour in undiluted RU...

I hate the smell of Tordon..haven't used it for 15 years. Round-Up works well enough.

That's almost exactly the technique I used on my poplar removal contract in LaJolla RBtree!

360 degree girdling troughs with a chainsaw, but I stuffed the troughs with cotton balls soaked in Roundup, and then covered the girdling troughs with wraps of duct tape.

It killed the trees great no problem, but the sprouts? No such luck, it took almost three years of follow up. And to be perfectly honest, I'd bet money that there are still a few poplar sprouts there to this day, probably young trees by now. It's almost impossible to kill them all on a project that was once heavily populated by mature trees. Those bloody sprouts were actually popping up in the middle of this projects series of shallow manmade lakes! I had to go wading with my spray bottle!

Poplars are one of the toughest root systems to completely kill in my experience.

jomoco

 

[ClimbinArbor]

apply tordon to the top outside ring of the trunk, after cutting preferbly. just a little drop per inch or so will do it. keep the kids and dogs awaqy for atleast a week

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Be careful with the tordon, I mean really careful. Im from a farming background and had to use it extensively.

Tordon is a 4 to 1 mix of 2,4-D and picloram. The 2,4-D being half the ingrediant (just add 2,4,5-t in equal parts) to make the famous Agent Orange. Tordon was called "agent white" and was used alongside agent orange in vietnam. And we know how that story ended.

Stuff is bad, a spray contractor I knew called it the mafia mix because as he said "it will get you, your children, and your childrens children."

Not a nice article. But its like seeing pics of chainsaw cuts, helps make you more aware and more careful.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-02/05/content_303315.htm

 

[Curbside]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm getting the picture that no matter what I do short of bringing in the cats and digging the entire yard up their is going to be years of shoots. The job is not going forward for several weeks yet so if their are any other ideas or personal experinces I would like to hear them.

 

[ClimbinArbor]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm getting the picture that no matter what I do short of bringing in the cats and digging the entire yard up their is going to be years of shoots. The job is not going forward for several weeks yet so if their are any other ideas or personal experinces I would like to hear them.

no. tordon will kill it. just make sure you dont get any on your hands or mucus membranes. if it does get on your hands wash it immediatly(sp).

 

[ClimbinArbor]

Be careful with the tordon, I mean really careful. Im from a farming background and had to use it extensively.

Tordon is a 4 to 1 mix of 2,4-D and picloram. The 2,4-D being half the ingrediant (just add 2,4,5-t in equal parts) to make the famous Agent Orange. Tordon was called "agent white" and was used alongside agent orange in vietnam. And we know how that story ended.

Stuff is bad, a spray contractor I knew called it the mafia mix because as he said "it will get you, your children, and your childrens children."

Not a nice article. But its like seeing pics of chainsaw cuts, helps make you more aware and more careful.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-02/05/content_303315.htm

thx timber.

that taught me a couple things and i completely forgot to give him the dont drink the blue stuff talk.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Roundup + Garlon works very well on most plants. If the tree is in a grassy local, then follow up with Garlon only.

The term for what RB uses is a frill application, and a hatchet works well, giving more surface area and exploded fiber.

With both frill and stump paint, it is best to apply within 15-20 min of wounding (if a basal cut can be called a wound). There have been several studies (Gov. and Univ.) that show very high statistical kill rates on large diameter plants.

They also support RB's mention of late fall application being the most efficacious. the second best is an early summer post cut app of fresh basal regeneration.

So build the revisit into the price, or contract to come back for additional fees so you don't end up eating it for the next three years.

 

[Curbside]

Alright. Sounds like Tordon will work. I will check into getting this item hopefully it is available here. Yes sounds like it is very dangerous stuff and the right gear and precautions will have to be taken. Obviously the cheimical will have to be covered. Plastic and duct tape should work or is their a better way to cover up the application.

 

[Curbside]

Okay I spoke with a friend of mine who is a licensed applicator. He specializes in turf applications and retention pond alge controll. He can get the chemical Tordon. Their are two types available. Both are residual and one type costing 210.00 for 20 liters and another kind costing 870.00 for 20 liters. Both come with a ton of cautions.

Because he is not familiar with this chemical we are going to see a local chemical expert on Monday to find more information about this chemical. The fact that it is residual in the ground for a long time has me a little concerned after all this is in a residential neighborhood and I would hate to see the poisoning of these trees end up poisoning half the neighborhood's trees and whatever else. Anyone have any comments on how dangerous it can be for other plant life.

 

[pdqdl]

Tordon RTU (ready to use) is no longer available in my area, but an identical product is Pathway. I use Tordon 22k to make my own RTU product, it saves about 50%.

Tordon K is a concentrated form used for spraying on woody vegetation. It is about $90/gal, and a quart can kill all the woody vegetation on an acre. Probably not what you want to buy.

When you guys want to look up a chemical, go here for labels and MSDS's:

http://www.cdms.net/LabelsMsds/LMDefault.aspx

Put "Tordon" in the search phrase, and you will get a number of different formulations. Download the label and learn about it.

A number of folks were concerned about the health aspects of the product. Acording to the MSDS, it is pretty mild stuff, as herbicides go. Not discounting all the precautionary notes, the active ingredient has a lower lethal dose than aspirin, and has no specific skin or eye hazard comments other than "may cause irritation". The most toxic (to humans) ingredient seems to the ethylene glycol: some of you might recognize that as antifreeze, a truly lethal (but common) chemical.

A cautionary note here guys: if you are not licensed to use ANY herbicide, it can be HUGE fines for not following the rules. It's not even legal for you to go to Walmart, buy a squirt bottle of Roundup, and charge your sister-in-law $5.00 to spray the weeds on the patio. The laws are very specific, at least in Mo. & Ks.

So unless you are willing to risk a huge fine, just call somebody like me to come do the job for you. That, or go get the license. It's not that hard to do.

If anybody wants to know more about tordon, krenite, garlon, or a whole bunch of other chemicals, just ask me. PM or public. I know a little bit about trees, I know a LOT about pesticides.

 

[Toddppm]

Not a nice article. But its like seeing pics of chainsaw cuts, helps make you more aware and more careful.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-02/05/content_303315.htm

And that right there is why I don't want to get too involved in treatments with any kind of chemicals if I can help it. I know that's where a lot of companies make their biggest money, just not worth the risk to me.

 

[okietreedude1]

I too use tordon rtu. pretty cheap stuff and it lasts quite a while. the ole addage-a little bit goes a long way. I think i can get quart bottles for about $10 at the chemical store.

It will do some serious harm though if your not careful. If you treat the trees on the customers property and the neighbor has the same tree within any distance that the roots may habitate the same space, DONT TREAT! You could kill the neighbors tree too. Then the neighbor has a dead tree, calls someone else out and the math starts to take place. Next you know, regulatory departments are making calls and youre looking at some big fines and probably some pro bono work.

Like PDQDL mentioned, laws are strict. Here in OK too. If you charge, youre supposed to be certified and licensed (not one in the same.)

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Like PDQDL mentioned, laws are strict. Here in OK too. If you charge, youre supposed to be certified and licensed (not one in the same.)

In the US I think it is EPA standards with state additions and enforcement. Here everything goes through the WI DNR.

When I worked for the Green Monster, there was an applicator who was doing cash work out of the company truck, on his company route , and failed to call on registry (neighbor call b4 list that is very extensive and bothersome). The person was actually a greenie registry activist who was entrapping the poor kid. The DNR tried to nail the branch, but ended up getting the kid (who also lost his job) for the violation. been 10 years, I don't remember the fine value, but it was onerous for someone on unemployment.

Lastly, to all and sundry out there, read the
Read the label, for it is the law!

 

[pdqdl]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimberMcPherson
Not a nice article. But its like seeing pics of chainsaw cuts, helps make you more aware and more careful.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english...ent_303315.htm

And that right there is why I don't want to get too involved in treatments with any kind of chemicals if I can help it. I know that's where a lot of companies make their biggest money, just not worth the risk to me.

There is a great deal of fear in our society about chemicals, particularly pesticides. Unfortunately, someone always dredges up the old "agent orange" scare tactic to support their fears.

There is almost no comparison at all between aerial blanket applications in a war zone with a military herbicide that is contaminated with dioxins and whatever other hazardous chemicals the manufacturer needed to dispose (read: "NO EPA regulations need apply"), and every day herbicides that suffer extensive safety evaluation and regulated application.

In addition to the probable toxic doses from agent orange, there is no way to evaluate whatever OTHER environmental or ingested toxins were present in the indiginous population of Vietnam. Add to those problems the tendency to blame everything on "Agent Orange", simply because the risks and actual related problems were never properly assessed. [By the way, Agent Orange was principally "2,4,5-T", not "2,4-D", the common dandelion killer]

It's about the same thing as comparing the lethality of a war zone to an olympic biathlon event. Granted, there are some scary herbicides out there, and all of them should be used properly. It just bugs me that there are so many people (my wife included) that spout "organic" food nonsense, while washing their dishes, clothes, houses, and bodies in a continuous chemical stew of genuinely toxic chemicals.

We swallow all kinds of "chemicals" in our regular groceries and pharmaceuticals, yet because a chemical is regulated and sprayed on a plant as a herbicide it seems much more to be feared than the common chemicals we have grown accustomed to.

Just my two cents worth!