Milling wood stakes

[1CallLandscape]

hey guys, im just getting into milling ( with a mill ) i am starting a winter business of milling wood stakes for local construction companys. has anybody built a mill to make these in one pass over a log??

i was thinking of making a simple homemade bandsaw with another saw blade set up that passes in front of the band blade. The other blaldes would be comprised of multiple 10" ripping table saw blades spaced out 1" to match the other dimension and they would be hydraulically driven. Good idea??? the stakes i want to cut are 1" x 24-48" mainly oak and pine.

has anybody ever built such a machine? im open to all suggestions. what about sharpening them does any boudy make just the sharpener bit without the while drive machine?

 

[timhar]

All stake makers that I know of slice a log on a regular saw, cut them to the length of the stake needed then put the resulting board through a gang rip to create "noodles". The standard rule of thumb is that it takes 5 hp. per rip blade to cut hardwood so doing it on the saw would require some serious hp. The reason they are cut to length before ripping is because a stake cannot have any knots or other defects in it or it will break while being driven in. Cutting to length allows you to cut around major defects. Trying to cut stakes in one pass over the log won't allow you to defect out weak spots so you would probably waste more lumber in reject stakes than the savings in time would be worth.

 

[woodshop]

All stake makers that I know of slice a log on a regular saw, cut them to the length of the stake needed then put the resulting board through a gang rip to create "noodles". The standard rule of thumb is that it takes 5 hp. per rip blade to cut hardwood so doing it on the saw would require some serious hp. The reason they are cut to length before ripping is because a stake cannot have any knots or other defects in it or it will break while being driven in. Cutting to length allows you to cut around major defects. Trying to cut stakes in one pass over the log won't allow you to defect out weak spots so you would probably waste more lumber in reject stakes than the savings in time would be worth.

Well... sounds like somebody that's been there and done that. Makes sense to me cutting to length first to cut around knots and defects.

As for rigging up a machine from scratch that will do what you say... not to put a damper, but my personal opinion is it would be a little more complicated than it might seem at first. Maybe you are up to it though. I'm no machinist, but I have built my share of jigs and things that go bump in the night.

 

[1CallLandscape]

thanks for the info, around here knot free wood is pretty toughf to find so, rejecting the knotted stake will be a fact of life for me. as for the hp of the multi gang rip saw i plan on using a high torque hydraulic motor.

im also just wondering what the diffferences between a bandsaw and a good chainsaw mill would be ( cutting speed, maintenance etc.) im pretty set on a band saw but would a chainsaw mill be more practical for me just cutting 36" long logs?

 

[BobL]

thanks for the info, around here knot free wood is pretty toughf to find so, rejecting the knotted stake will be a fact of life for me. as for the hp of the multi gang rip saw i plan on using a high torque hydraulic motor.

im also just wondering what the diffferences between a bandsaw and a good chainsaw mill would be ( cutting speed, maintenance etc.) im pretty set on a band saw but would a chainsaw mill be more practical for me just cutting 36" long logs?

In general I reckon it depends how much you mill - the more you mill the more cost and time effective a bandsaw will be. Chainsaws waste an awful lot of wood by turning it into sawdust but they are very useful in breaking down big logs into something a Band saw can then take on.

 

[timhar]

I feel like I'm becoming a prophet of doom on this site as most of my posts thus far have had a negative tone to them. Please understand that my posts are meant to inform and help, not criticize.
Much of how you set up your stake making operation depends on your goal. Stakes are high volume, low profit items that require a lot of handling. If your goal is to keep yourself occupied during the winter and make some beer money then you don't need to worry about being efficient making and handling stakes.
If you want to make money at it though, you need to think in terms of material handling and high production techniques.
I know this site is heavily geared toward CSM's. CSM's are great for making huge flitches, breaking down huge logs and accessing logs that can't be removed from their location, but there is no way you can make money milling stakes with a CSM. Too slow, too much waste. A band mill will do much better. You can slice your log through and through, turn all the flitches on edge and slice through and through again to produce a logs worth of stakes in short order. This is still not as efficient as using a gang rip but it will get you started.
If you do still decide to try your one pass idea, remember, you can not over engineer equipment used in logging and saw milling. Figure how much power or steel you need for something, then double it. For example, a table saw blade from Home Depot is not meant for log breakdown, they're meant for cutting dry lumber to size. Dealing with wet wood in logs, you will need blades meant to do that job, like edger blades.
Once cut from the log, each and every time you touch that wood, you lose money. If you are a one man band, remember that any given piece of equipment you own will sit idle 60-75% of the time as you move the product down the line. Remember too that if you make your stakes in the winter and sell to construction companies for use many months down the line, you will need to dry them or they will mold and begin rotting in a banded bundle.
Visit a stake making operation far from your intended market so you aren't a perceived to be a threat to them and you will pick up loads of information. Don't forget the coffee and doughnuts
Best of luck in your endeavor.

 

[woodshop]

...CSM's are great for making huge flitches, breaking down huge logs and accessing logs that can't be removed from their location, but there is no way you can make money milling stakes with a CSM.

...for example, a table saw blade from Home Depot is not meant for log breakdown, they're meant for cutting dry lumber to size. Dealing with wet wood in logs, you will need blades meant to do that job, like edger blades.

I definitely agree with both of these point 100%, you'd spend more on gas/oil/chain than the stakes would be worth. Table saw blades... set them up on a gang rip and they will be toast in no time at all. You'd be changing blades more often then underwear, and even cheapo Harbor Freight blades (useless in a woodshop by the way) are cheaper than Fruit of the Loom's