Modding tools

[Josh A.]

I have searched through threads and have found useful info on saw modding, but have not been able to piece together all the tools that I need. Can anyone create a list of the specialty tools needed for mods? I would just like to see them in one place, to know that I am not missing any major tool for this type of work. I understand that some may be homemade, or unnecessary. I also am having a hard time finding some of the tools that I want. I would like to purchase a air/fuel mixture tester and cannot find what I am looking for. Where are good places to buy these tools?

I am new to this, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Josh

 

[timberwolf]

You ask a very open ended question, and I don't think it really is something you can or would want to build a shopping list for before you started. Just get a few basics and then the need for aditional tools will come up as your work advances.

I am not sure I follow your need for an AF sensor, esp if you are just getting into saw mods.

First thing is likely just basic shop tools and work bench for saw work, wrenches, drivers, torx, hex keys tach, compression gauge, then things like ring compressors, calipers and a good hand grinder, fly wheel pullers, drill press, likely most importaint a solid cutting stand so you can test your saws.

With that alot can be done towards accomplishing basic worksaw porting.

Then the sky is the limit if you want to do more involved work aimed at shaving tenths of a second, lathe and mill plus tooling, custom jigs and holders, dial indicators test and measuring equipment of all sorts, welder, angled mini grinders, pressure/vac gauge, engine related text books and software, plus stock of spare parts, metal, hardware, adheasives, gasket materials, shim stock and the list goes on.......

 

[NWCS]

the basics i would recommend

1/4" inline die grinder
pencil grinder, Matco SE320K or Snap-On AT1070A
good low speed drill & bits
1/4" and 1/8" carbide and diamond bits
diamond file sets with multiple shapes/profiles
welder
dial indicator with mounting setup of your pref.
vac/pressure test kit!!
compression tester
micrometer or digital caliper.
Wiha tool set
various hand/power tools
tach

forget the AF ratio monitor. does not apply to our industry YET heh.
the best way to tune is in a log with the knowledge that lean as hell may sound nice to most but melts down the saw and lacks any real power


the snapon pencil grinder is awesome, oiled properly will last darn near forever. i just got the matco and have not tried that one. the snapon has a finer speed control and much higher RPM. matco has a nicer exhaust hose and grip.

 

[Josh A.]

Thanks for the replies guys! I realize that I left the question in pretty general terms. I also did not list the tools that I already have, so the basics could be included too. My hope is this thread will have all the tools listed for working on/modding chainsaws in one place, and in the end making it easier and less time consuming for future searchers. It is already starting to be a great list! Thanks again for your recommendations.

 

[Josh A.]

As far as the AF monitor, my thought was it would take the guess work out of tuning it too lean. How lean is too lean? Wouldn't you be able to tune it exactly to 14.7% while at high rpms with a monitor?

 

[NWCS]

a trained ear. on non air injected saws if its revving smooth as glass its lean. you want that missing/burble/bark sound at max throttle. after a while you learn the ballance. its been a while since i have done an air injected saw but i tuned it rich like that also if i remember right.

 

[timberwolf]

Load on the saw is always changing, filter condition changes which also changes AF ratio. This is a result of a fuel curve that is both affected by RPM and Load, simply looking at a delta lamda reading of unloaded saw won't tell much about the actual mixture under cutting conditions. 2 strokes also don't run best at the thoretical 14.6:1. Maximum power will be had down closer to 12:1. Also the mix oil will play havock on a sensor designed for 4 stroke automotive applications.

Best method is the simple one, cut a block of wood, check the time and make a carb adjustment. keep trying it a little rich then a little lean Once you have the saw cutting the best back it off to the rich side just a hair to give yourself a some safety margin to account for variations in fuel, air temp, humidity ect. Check it with a tach and use that as your benchmark to tune the saw given the same bar length. On saws with rev limiters tuning by tach is hopeless, on modded saws factory carb settings are meaningless, how the saw cuts and runs in the wood is what matters and will give you the best read on tuning.

Also you can read the plug which will help give a picture of the saws overall tuning. I like to see a tan coffee color for general appearance but look at some other areas of the plug too. Spark plug reading is just part of the picture, it can be missleading esp with different deposits left by individual fuel and oil mixes.

What do you have set up currently for tools? What mods have you been doing so far?

 

[Josh A.]

I haven't done too much in the form of modding chainsaws. I always have fixed them and used them, but until now have never had the itch to try to gain performance. I "rebuilt" several saws, including my Partner P70. (which currently could use a new jug) I also repair saws for guys I know. I AM NO EXPERT! I am good at fixing things. My dad taught me young how to figure out how just about anything runs.

Recently I purchased a Olympyk 980 that came with 2 other saws. None of them were running. The owner had traded them in because he was sick of messing with them, he said that it was down on power and once warm, he could never get it to restart. He just wanted a new saw that he did not have to mes s with. The carb had a piece of gunk blocking the L jet. The H screw was turned out about 8 turns. I don't know how it did not fall out! A carb cleaning and adjustment was all the saw needed. I took the muffler off to take out the small baffled pipe, and what I could see of the piston and cylinder looked great. The 980 has a goofy intake system. I blocked off the original intake and added a cylindrical shaped air filter. I had to dremel the original filter cover and make a strap to keep the new filter tight to the rubber carb boot....And that is about the extent of my chainsaw modding.
I just bought a Stihl 084, and hope to rebuild it. New rings and bearings, hone, port the intake, open the carb, and fabricate my own expansion chamber. The 980 is the test mule. I picked it up cheap and have extra parts. It ran good before I modified the intake and exhaust. It runs real good now. I can only imagine that (this winter) when I port the intake and exhaust it will run great.
I have most mechanics tools. Hand tools, air compressor, stick welder (would like a nice wire-feed), air chisel, dremel, caliper, volt/ohm meter, etc....The things that I am missing are the "specialty tools" .

Anyhow, that's my story. If I left any blank spots, just ask and I will answer. Thanks again for the help. I know how to make them run, I just want to know how to make them RUN!

 

[Josh A.]

What do all the colored bars and yellow "stars" mean below a members name? Obviously the more you post the more you get, but I don't know what they are actually for.

 

[timberwolf]

Sounds like you have more than enough to get into some saws. Likely best thing is to get some reading material, there is lots of stuff here if you dig through the old posts and search, but some of the 2 stroke books are good to form an idea of what you want to accomplish. Look up the Tuners Handbook by Jennings, it's a free download. There are a few other more recent books two, cost a few bucks to get them but they can save you bucks in the end by helping to avoid mistakes and save time reinventing wheels. A lot of stuff though is written with a 2 stroke motor cycle running tuned exhaust in mind, there are a good number of differences when it comes to saws and the conditions and limitations they have.

I'd really just dive in check out some reading material and then go at a saw, best to start with something spare parts are easy to come by. You can add tools later.

2 tools you might need first though would be a tach and a log stand. I know the log stand sounds silly but if you don't have good consistant wood and a solid way to hold it in place it is all but impossible to tell if your port work is making gains or not.

Other bit of advice for startin out... For what it is worth (likely next to nothing) is do one change at a time, put the saw back together and test it. Soon as you change two things at once there is no way of know which change did what. One might have been a gain one might be a loss and the end result looks as if neither did anything as the two cancel out. It takes patients but in the end you will get a better understanding of what exact changes to the engine do to the performance.

 

[Josh A.]

Thanks Timberwolf. I will check out your recommended reading material. I like to read and understand the "whys" of things before I actually dive in...then once I get up to my elbows in a project, I realize how much I did not understand!!! HA! Also, great advice about one mod at a time.

 

[Diesel Pro]

the basics i would recommend

1/4" inline die grinder
pencil grinder, Matco SE320K or Snap-On AT1070A
good low speed drill & bits
1/4" and 1/8" carbide and diamond bits
diamond file sets with multiple shapes/profiles
welder
dial indicator with mounting setup of your pref.
vac/pressure test kit!!
compression tester
micrometer or digital caliper.
Wiha tool set
various hand/power tools
tach

forget the AF ratio monitor. does not apply to our industry YET heh.
the best way to tune is in a log with the knowledge that lean as hell may sound nice to most but melts down the saw and lacks any real power


the snapon pencil grinder is awesome, oiled properly will last darn near forever. i just got the matco and have not tried that one. the snapon has a finer speed control and much higher RPM. matco has a nicer exhaust hose and grip.

I like to have some mandrels and tootsie rolls too. Makes for a really nice smooth finish compared to a burr

 

[timberwolf]

Yes split mandrils are great wrap what ever grit you want on them and peal it back as it wears, the sanding drums can be kinda junky, they heat up fast used on metal, the rubber gets soft and the drum slips, also they wear quick.

 

[trappermike]

The tool you are looking for to check for rich/lean mixture is a pyrometer,used by guys with Hi=performance snowmobiles. It shows a readout of exhaust temperature which is a direct result of fuel mixture. If the mixture is too lean then ex, temp. will read too high and result in a cooked piston. Snowmobile shops can supply the tool,you could use it at home for verifying your mixture,it maybe a little bulky to mount on the saw permanently,although they are getting pretty small.Basically a probe that sticks into the ex. stream and a digital readout display. It's important to snowmobilers because they can be making huge changes in altitude in a short time and must keep an eye on their fuel mixture.
Hope that explains it for you...