Need Advice on Husky 55 & Husky 455 Breakdown

[timberscribe]

Greetings to a great group of chainsaw experts!

I'm a small woodlot owner in SW Virginia and I've been getting useful chainsaw information from this site for a couple of years now. However, I'm having trouble diagnosing a problem with both my Husky saws and I thought it might be time for me to register and post a specific question.


Me:
--small woodlot owner
--firewood cutter
--small-time slabber (short boards for woodworking)

What I cut:
--4-5 cords firewood annually (usual Appalachian hardwoods)
--small amounts of slabbing (same wood types)
--annual brush cutting on property
--episodic blowdown cleanup

My saws:
Husky 55 Rancher (purchased new in 2004)
Husky 455 Rancher (received as gift, lightly used, ca. 2004-05)

Problem:
--clutch/clutch bearing failure (both saws, this year)
--clutch roller bearing fell apart, clutch broken at splines (both saws)

Question:
--what happened and why?
--how can I fix/prevent this?

Additional details:

Husky 55 Rancher
--bar: 18" Oregon PowerMatch (050)
--sprocket: Oregon PowerMate (7 tooth)
--chain: Woodland Pro 30RC (3/8" 68 drive links)

Husky 455 Rancher
--bar: 18" Oregon PowerMatch
--sprocket: Oregon PowerMate (7 tooth)
--chain: Woodland Pro 30RC (3/8" 68 drive links)

Summary: I purchased the 55 Rancher new in 2004, but spent a couple of seasons in frustration with the stock laminated bar and bent-raker (low kick) chain: despite my best efforts I could not get the chain to perform well, and I was meticulous in following the sharpening directions. I looked everywhere (including the purchasing dealer) for information about saw chain/sharpening, but found little useful advice. I was getting impression that most answers were driven by liability concerns ("oh, everyone should use only low-kickback chain") than real experience. This was of course before I knew about these forums. I grew up splitting wood but my dad always manned the chainsaw; this was my first foray into the chainsaw side of woodcutting myself. I chose the 55 Rancher because it was the brand/model used by another relative who loved it. I actually prefer it to the newer 455, though it's fine for most of my uses as well.

Everything changed when I consulted a popular logger supply house and spoke to an experienced tech. who recommended the above chain (and appropriate accompanying bar/sprockets). Suddenly I had a saw that cut like crazy, that sharpened amazingly well (I use the Husky Sharpforce combination file), and exhibited no more tendency to kickback than the chain it came equipped with. Plus the solid bar required much less frequent grinding/filing than the soft and flimsy laminated stock bar. I've been using the above-equipped Husky 55 with great success for the past 5-6 years. When I was given the lightly-used 455 a few years ago, at the suggestion of the same supply house I equipped it with the same cutting gear and have been running that as well for the past 3 years or so.

I'm pretty particular about taking care of all my tools, so I always use the correct oil/gas mix, good grade of B&C oil, new plugs every season, correct chain tension, frequent sharpening, clean air filters, etc. When I slab I go slow, rest the saw between cuts, and (with the 455) turn the oiler up to max. No problems.

Until this year: I set the 455 aside this spring when I noticed excessive slop in the clutch. Intending to return to fix that later, I just finished some cutting with my 55 Rancher and noted the same thing. Took both saws apart and found that in both cases the clutch roller bearing was in pieces and the splines were shorn off both clutches! Looked like overheating (lack of lubrication), but I wasn't sure. As I said, I always use decent B&C oil, always refill oil when I gas up, episodically confirm oiling by "spray testing" (holding tip of revved saw near wood to look for oil spray). Both saws have always needed oil when I gas up, though neither oil reservoir is usually totally empty--in other words, no obvious changes in B&C oiling.

I took the saws to a dealer, but I'm not getting answers that make sense. I can't tell if I'm gettting brushed off because I'm not using all-Husky stuff, or maybe because I haven't bought everything there--I don't know. I'm being told that the bearings likely failed because the chain wasn't getting enough oil (with the hint that this wouldn't have happened with all-Husky bar/chain/sprockets, or that I was using the incorrect chain, wrong sprocket, wasn't refilling the oil, etc.). I could see how lack of lubrication might have caused it, but how and why? Can't get an answer.

The 55's clutch drum was the original; I typically replace the sprocket at the mfger-recommended interval of every 2 chains. I typically use up one chain a season per saw. Now the 455 had a combined clutch/sprocket ("star-drive" unit) unit which I changed to the separate clutch/sprocket at the recommendation of the above supply house. I'm being told that the 455 requires that combined star-drive clutch/sprocket unit to correctly power the oil pump, and that this modification resulted in under-oiling leading to bearing failure. But my queries about how/how often to grease the clutch bearing (I grease it per owner's manual instructions, though it's not clear to me how the grease gets from the end of the shaft down into the bearing cage) got conflicting answers. And even if this modification did cause the problem, why did I have the same failure with the 55? No one can tell me.

I'm not criticizing anybody, I try to support both dealers and logging supply houses, but I'm really not sure how to proceed. I can just replace the drums and bearings, but if I've got an oiler problem it'll just happen again. I can allow the saw oilers to be replaced, but that might not even be the problem. The only other damage I can see is with the 455--that plastic pinion transferring power from the sprocket to the oil pump is boggered up with broken bearing parts. I've got a bit of bluing on the 55s bar and was told, "see, it isn't oiling," but the bluing is on the sprocket nose, which (according to the Oregon catalog) usually is caused by friction from a pinched sprocket. Just before the 55 quit I was chunking up a big, punky dead ornamental maple and the job did require some funky cuts. I could see how the tip might have pinched. Did some of the punk clog up the oiler and let the bearing overheat?

I apologize for this lengthy post, but I'm really unsure of what to do. Any insight into probable causes and best resolution of the problem would be greatly, greatly appreciated. From what I've read on this forum over the last couple of years, you guys have forgotten more about chainsaws than I'll ever know.

Thanking you in advance for your wisdom,

Timberscribe

 

[Fish]

OK, this one is back up!!!!

 

[dsell]

I think you are tightening the chain too tight or idling the saws too much. Do you have to take links out of your chains because you can't tension them any more?

 

[Philbert]

The answers are in the other 2 threads that you posted in.

This bearing is only really used when the saw is idling, not when you are cutting.

The clutch drum bearing is a replaceable wear part that needs periodic lubrication. In your Husky manual there are instructions for lubricating these through the hole in your spindle, using a small grease gun. These are not lubricated with the bar and chain oil, as the nose sprocket bearing is.

I lube mine periodically (depending on use) and whenever I remove the clutch drum for cleaning behind it, or when replacing a drum or sprocket. You need to add this to your maintenance activities.


Philbert

 

[Axlerod74]

The bearing on the 55 cannot be greased through the end of the crankshaft. You have to remove the clutch and apply grease to bearing by hand. Not sure about the 455.

 

[Philbert]

The bearing on the 55 cannot be greased through the end of the crankshaft. You have to remove the clutch and apply grease to bearing by hand. Not sure about the 455.

Thanks for the correction. Not to get into a p_____g match, but that is one of the things I like about most STIHL saws - pop off an 'E'-clip to pull the clutch drum and grease the bearing.

Philbert

 

[timberscribe]

I think you are tightening the chain too tight or idling the saws too much. Do you have to take links out of your chains because you can't tension them any more?

Dsell,

Thank you for your reply on this.

I'm not in the habit of allowing the saw to idle for long periods, though I will let it run (usually in my hands) for a minute or so while I roll a log over with my feet, reposition myself for another cut, etc.--the usual stuff. So it doesn't seem like I'm letting it idle any more than a typical user would. Now when I'm making long cuts (slabbing) I'll run at full throttle for a few minutes at a stretch, but not idling.

As to chain tension, perhaps I'm overtightening it, though I've never run out of thread on the tightener or had to take a link out. I make sure the chain is snug (snaps back to bar on underside but still can be turned by hand) and tighten it only if I notice excessive slack (visibly sagging chain on underside). I have noticed that I sometimes get a "dip" worn in the bar near the tip (esp. if I've not flipped the bar in a while), but I thought that was a sign of a chain that's too loose, not too tight.

What do you think?

Timberscribe

 

[timberscribe]

The bearing on the 55 cannot be greased through the end of the crankshaft. You have to remove the clutch and apply grease to bearing by hand. Not sure about the 455.

Axlerod74,

The 55 Rancher owner's manual indicates that this bearing should be lubed weekly with the same grease gun used on the bar sprocket. The illustration in the manual shows a push-type grease gun being used, the implication being that grease can go from the hole on the shaft end through some kind of passage to the bearing, but there's no hole anywhere near that bearing for the grease to come out. I suppose they might mean just put grease on the shaft end and it will travel past the threads down to the bearing, but this doesn't seem likely.

I've always been a little confused about that particular maintenence instruction because I can't tell how the grease is supposed to get to the bearing. The dealer insisted that the hole on the shaft end didn't lead anywhere and that there was no need to try to insert grease there. He felt the bearing was lubricated by B&C oil being thrown from the chain as it traveled over the drive sprocket.

So I guess I'm still a little confused...

Timberscribe

 

[timberscribe]

The answers are in the other 2 threads that you posted in.

This bearing is only really used when the saw is idling, not when you are cutting.

The clutch drum bearing is a replaceable wear part that needs periodic lubrication. In your Husky manual there are instructions for lubricating these through the hole in your spindle, using a small grease gun. These are not lubricated with the bar and chain oil, as the nose sprocket bearing is.

I lube mine periodically (depending on use) and whenever I remove the clutch drum for cleaning behind it, or when replacing a drum or sprocket. You need to add this to your maintenance activities.


Philbert

Philbert,

Thanks for your time on this.

I've been thinking that the root cause was perhaps lack of lubrication, though there's some confusion about the proper way to lube this particlar bearing (and there are some users who evidently never lube it and never have any trouble). I wouldn't be worrying about it either except that I've had this same bearing fail on two different saws all of a sudden; it makes me suspect there's something I'm not doing. And it's also odd because I've never had this with either saw before. My cutting chores/conditions haven't (as far as I can tell) changed from what I've been doing over the past eight years. The only other factor I can think of is that these bearings came from a mail order house (so probably not OEM). Would that matter?

The owner's manual (see my reply to another in this thread) advises weekly lubing with a push-greaser but it's not clear how this would get grease to that bearing. Is this what you do?

I normally only remove the clutch when I replace the sprocket (about every 2 chains).

Your thoughts?

Timberscribe

 

[Axlerod74]

Only a few husqvarna models have a grease through shaft end (ie.....257, 262xp). Your dealer is correct that the 55 does not have this feature. When you remove your clutch, you can then access the sprocket bearing to add grease BY HAND. The grease gun serves no purpose in this application. I suspect the 455 does not have this feature either. Every time you remove your clutch, I would add a little grease to this bearing. I would not rely on the bar and chain oil getting to the bearing. Even though a small amount may get there, the grease is your best bet. This is a little more difficult to do with an outboard clutch (like the one on your 55).

 

[timberscribe]

Only a few husqvarna models have a grease through shaft end (ie.....257, 262xp). Your dealer is correct that the 55 does not have this feature. When you remove your clutch, you can then access the sprocket bearing to add grease BY HAND. The grease gun serves no purpose in this application. I suspect the 455 does not have this feature either. Every time you remove your clutch, I would add a little grease to this bearing. I would not rely on the bar and chain oil getting to the bearing. Even though a small amount may get there, the grease is your best bet. This is a little more difficult to do with an outboard clutch (like the one on your 55).

Axelrod 74,

This is very helpful.

Agreed that it seems unlikely that any significant lubrication of this bearing comes from B&C oil, and odd that the Husky manual would indicate a lubrication protocol that doesn't actually work. But I think you're right--I've never seen how grease could go from that hole, through the shaft, and make a right hand turn over into the bearing.

I currently only remove the clutch drum when I replace the sprocket. I do that once I've used up 2 chains. I run a piece of soft rope into the spark plug hole--I don't have a piston stop--to be able to turn the clutch off; the 455 clutch lacks the nut and it looks like you have to set a drift punch in a notch to back the clutch off. So it's a bit more of a hassle with the 455.

I take it I should remove the clutch drums more frequently (how often?) between sprocket replacements in order to hand-grease the bearing?

Timberscribe

 

[Axlerod74]

You are correct. There are clutch tools made for the 455 that would allow you to use a wrench but I have found that a punch carefully placed where indicated (owners manual or workshop manual) will work. I have used the rope trick but if you use a punch for removel, a piston stop works best. I would grease the bearing at least once or twice ovet the life of a chain. The clutch removal is not as difficult if you do it periodically. I have also found it helpful to remove the starter when putting the clutch back on so as not to put undue stress on the starter when tightening the clutch on.

 

[timberscribe]

You are correct. There are clutch tools made for the 455 that would allow you to use a wrench but I have found that a punch carefully placed where indicated (owners manual or workshop manual) will work. I have used the rope trick but if you use a punch for removel, a piston stop works best. I would grease the bearing at least once or twice ovet the life of a chain. The clutch removal is not as difficult if you do it periodically. I have also found it helpful to remove the starter when putting the clutch back on so as not to put undue stress on the starter when tightening the clutch on.

Axlerod74,

I greatly appreciate these tips, and I'll plan on getting a piston stop and proceeding as you advise.
It makes sense that the "give" of the rope would make it harder to loosen the clutch with a punch. Any recommendation on a stop (type/source)?

I'm hoping that replacement parts and a more regular lubrication regimen for that bearing will solve the problem. I'd certainly rather pull the clutch from time to time than have this happen again.

Timberscribe

 

[dsell]

Dsell,

Thank you for your reply on this.

I'm not in the habit of allowing the saw to idle for long periods, though I will let it run (usually in my hands) for a minute or so while I roll a log over with my feet, reposition myself for another cut, etc.--the usual stuff. So it doesn't seem like I'm letting it idle any more than a typical user would. Now when I'm making long cuts (slabbing) I'll run at full throttle for a few minutes at a stretch, but not idling.

As to chain tension, perhaps I'm overtightening it, though I've never run out of thread on the tightener or had to take a link out. I make sure the chain is snug (snaps back to bar on underside but still can be turned by hand) and tighten it only if I notice excessive slack (visibly sagging chain on underside). I have noticed that I sometimes get a "dip" worn in the bar near the tip (esp. if I've not flipped the bar in a while), but I thought that was a sign of a chain that's too loose, not too tight.

What do you think?

Timberscribe

•
Sounds like you are doing it correctly. I assume you hold the tip of the bar up. The 55 manual states,"

Check regularly:
Whether the tip of the bar is
uneven or badly worn. If a
hollow forms on one side of
the bar tip this is due to a
slack chain.

Both versions have built-in
needle bearing at the drive
shaft, whitch has to be
greased regularly (once a
week).
NOTE! Use only high quality
bearing grease or engine oil."

Rather unclear since we don't know how many tanks of fuel were used in a week.

From Stihl, "The chain on sprocket nose bars can be tensioned
slightly tighter than chains on solid nose bars.
Chain should not be tight when you’re done cutting,
since the chain will “shrink” as it cools off. Loosen it
slightly, so it doesn’t tighten on the bar.
Wearing work gloves, loosen bar mounting nuts
enough for the nose of the bar to slightly move up and
down.
Hold up the nose of the bar. Tighten the chain
adjusting screw until the chain will move freely without
binding when pulled by hand.
To make sure no kinks are in the chain, snap it by
pulling it out from the bar and letting go. Then check the
tension again. Lift the chain from the top middle of the
bar. The drive links should remain in the bar groove.
Retighten bar mounting nuts while still holding up the
bar nose, and then make a final tension check.

Special Cold Weather Care
If a chain is tensioned in very cold weather, it will
sag when it reaches the normal operating temperature.
Always keep the chain tension tight while cutting and
loosen it after operation, or it will cool, contract and
break, possibly damaging the bar, the crankshaft, and the
bearings.
At extremely low temperatures, normal chain oil will
“set” (become too thick to flow). A winter grade bar and
chain oil may be used.
Increase the oil flow while cutting in cold weather.
Cutting frozen wood increases friction on both the
cutters and tie straps, and can cause them to crack."

 

[Axlerod74]

I'm not sure that bearing grease is your only issue. You indicate that your clutch on the 455 was broken at the splines, this is unusual, can you send any pics of this? I take it you now have a "floating rim and drum setup" on both saws. It sounds like the bearing failure has damaged the worm gear (oil drive) on the 455. If so, this must be replaced. As mentioned before, you seem to be getting a bunch of heat build up and this needs to be addressed. Could be due to excessive chain tension or "slipping the clutch". When in a cut that is slowing the saw down, do you often bog it down so that the chain stops turning? What do you think could be leading to the excess clutch heat/wear? Are the clutch shoes getting worn thin?

 

[Fish]

Bearing grease is NOT your issue, you only assume it is.

Your problem likely lies in your "slabbing" and the saws that you are slabbing with. Likely coupled with rpms, and questionable sharpening,
slabbing procedures, cutting speeds, and the fact that the saws may not be up to the task. A new bearing from Oregon is only @ $3,
which is not a big deal. But lack of grease is NOT the problem............

 

[Fish]

Put up some pics, and we may be able to help focus it a little better....

 

[timberscribe]

New Information on 55/455 Breakdown

I'm not sure that bearing grease is your only issue. You indicate that your clutch on the 455 was broken at the splines, this is unusual, can you send any pics of this? I take it you now have a "floating rim and drum setup" on both saws. It sounds like the bearing failure has damaged the worm gear (oil drive) on the 455. If so, this must be replaced. As mentioned before, you seem to be getting a bunch of heat build up and this needs to be addressed. Could be due to excessive chain tension or "slipping the clutch". When in a cut that is slowing the saw down, do you often bog it down so that the chain stops turning? What do you think could be leading to the excess clutch heat/wear? Are the clutch shoes getting worn thin?

Axlerod,

Your remarks are very helpful.

I have in fact found that I do bog the saw down from time to time in certain cuts. When this happens I back off immediately, and I've found a lighter touch works better. From what I've read on this forum, the trend (esp. with newer/smaller saws) is toward higher speed/less torque, which requires a lighter touch. I have wondered if maybe the 3/8" Woodland Pro 30RC chain (a Husky-OK'd option) is a bit too aggressive for these smaller saws, though it's been SO much better than the stock H80 (Oregon Vanguard) chain which I found almost impossible to sharpen correctly with those bent rakers. I'd hate to go back to the drawing board on chain, because the 30RC cuts like crazy and sharpens easily with the Sharpforce tool I use. The clutch shoes do not appear to be heavily worn, and I'm picky about keeping my chain sharp. Despite this, though, I still do get bogged down on longer cuts in bigger wood. If my techniques is at fault, or if a low-profile chain would help, I'm totally open to suggestions.

But here's something else I noticed today which may/may not be relevant:

I took both saws apart carefully to prepare to order parts and noticed a difference in what I thought were two identical failures.

On the 455 the bearing was totally shredded and the clutch drum skirt (splined portion in which the bearing fits and over which the sprocket sits ) broken off. On the 55 the clutch drum skirt is similarly broken (splined portion broken into 2-3 pieces and completely off drum), but the bearing is only partially damaged (missing 1-2 needles, cage still intact). On the 455 the case is totally gone and part of it is mashed into the plastic pinion I mention below.

I'm wondering now if (with the 55) the clutch drum failed due to metal fatigue (it was the original part, 8 years old) and the pieces damaged the bearing, not vice versa? I don't know what the life expectancy of a clutch drum is, but maybe I should have replaced that? I've replaced the drive sprocket and bearing, but not the clutch drum. The clutch appears to be in good condition, inner surface of drum not grooved, clutch surfaces don't seem excessively worn, and it operates as it always has.

Of course it might indeed have been bearing failure in both cases (heat due to cutting technique?), or maybe clutch drum failure and on one saw it simply took out more of the bearing. In that case, though, we're talking about an 8 year old drum vs. a 2-3 year old one. With the 55 at least, is a worn-out clutch drum the culprit?

A possible complication with the 455 is that the unit came equipped with the one-piece clutch/sprocket; I was advised that it was OK to switch this saw to the same "floating" clutch drum set up that the 55 uses--the reason being that the floating set up allows for sprocket replacement without having to replace the clutch drum, and because the one-piece units are supposed to be harder on chains. I'd had such good luck with this on the 55 that I did so, and have used it with success for 2 years or so. But a local dealer pointed out to me that the oiler on the 455 works a little differently than the one on the 55, which it does. On the 55 the oiler runs on a worm-drive arrangement further in on the shaft, but on the 455 the oiler is activated by a plastic pinion which takes its power from direct contact with the "star drive" sprocket on the OEM one-piece clutch unit. The pinion has notches that interface with this start drive sprocket. According to one dealer, switching to a two-piece floating set up means that the smooth face of the floating drive sprocket won't engage the pinion as well, slowing down the oiler, and possibly causing the problem.

Now when I switched to the floating set up the rate of oiling didn't seem to change noticeably, and even if it did who says that the B&C oil even reaches the clutch bearing? There seems to be divided opinion about that. So this may be unrelated to the bearing issue, though I would like to know if it's OK equip both saws with the same set up. Does anyone know? (Note: the parts diagram for the 55 shows both the floating and the one-piece units as OEM options--though mine came new with the former; the parts diagram for the 455 only shows the one-piece set up).

Again, my apologies for the lengthy posts, but I thought some of this might be relevant.

And I'd just like to add as well that I too might regard some of this as hair-splltting--if I didn't have two saws down with the problem. So this isn't a theoretical issue to me. I'd really like to get a better idea of the problem before I replace the parts. With the 55 it will be obvious what I need (new clutch drum, sprocket, clutch bearing); with the 455 I'm thinking I need to get a firmer answer on whether I have to keep the one-piece drum/sprocket. Like most of you, I like to know what's going on with my equipment, especially if I'm having problems caused by operator error.

If you or other members have any additional thoughts/suggestions, it would be greatly helpful to me as I try to diagnose and fix this problem.

Thanks again,

Timberscribe

 

[Fish]

Sounds like you need to find a bigger saw.........

Milling is hard on the big pro stuff, you ain't got that.........

 

[Philbert]

The 55 Rancher owner's manual indicates that this bearing should be lubed weekly with the same grease gun used on the bar sprocket. The illustration in the manual shows a push-type grease gun being used, the implication being that grease can go from the hole on the shaft end through some kind of passage to the bearing, but there's no hole anywhere near that bearing for the grease to come out. I suppose they might mean just put grease on the shaft end and it will travel past the threads down to the bearing, but this doesn't seem likely.

There are several issues being discussed in this thread. Let's just clear this one. Some, but not all Husky's have a hole in the clutch end of the shaft, with a horizontal hole that leads to the clutch bearing. My 353 has one. Easy to use - hard to tell how much grease is in there without pulling the clutch drum.

Do not put grease on a shaft end without the hole. You do not want to grease your clutch shoes.

Philbert