No rigging ever
- Thread starter kingswing
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Rftreeman
Addicted to ArboristSite
It all depends on the tree for me, if it's a removal and I only have one or two things to rig then I'll just use what's there and take wraps around the tree, if there's more or not a removal I use the porta wrap and sometimes a block up top.
Rftreeman
Addicted to ArboristSite
he sounds like an idiot..
It depends what the customer pays for. If I am doing my own work I mainly do natural crotches but it still takes time to set up. I did removals where the HO said it was too expensive. The DZ was target free so I told them if they are not worried about the lawn I can do it cheaper but they will have some yard work after. They were all for it and happy at the end of the day, as was I. But if your gonna do that you may want to get something in writing saying they understand you may damage the lawn. Also make sure there is no underground utilities or septic in your DZ. Rigging and lowering does take time but some times there is just no other options depending on targets in the DZ.
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
I still won't do it. Even if the client says "go ahead, bomb the yard." The reason is around here half of them aren't alright with the "door knocker" type job even after they signed off on it.
jomoco
Tree Freak
It ignores the fact that some trees simply can't be safely removed without mechanical advantaged rigging techniques being used by an experienced rigger.
Some trees are simply inaccessible with a crane period.
That's why the Hobbs and GRCS devices were invented. Some situations demand their use.
jomoco
Some trees are simply inaccessible with a crane period.
That's why the Hobbs and GRCS devices were invented. Some situations demand their use.
jomoco
I hear you there thats why I say protect yourself in writing, doesnt mean you wont have a fight on your hands but in the end you will win. I do not offer bombing routinely but in these instances these were dangerous storm damaged trees that the HO had to have removed for safety reasons but truly couldnt afford it and in the end they were just happy to have them down. The HO also wasnt just a random customer it was a brother of a good friend so the working/trust relationship was more then just business.
Blakesmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
In my area a lawn is a DZ. I don't see the big deal. On a super pristine lawn, maybe, but in that case you're grinding the stump and bringing in topsoil anyway, so it's an easy fix. Try to keep your chunks hitting the same spot of lawn and you barely have anything to fix. It wouldn't be that hard to switch over and rig everything so maybe I'll try offering that as a "premium" service and see if I can't put more coin in my pocket.
Never? There is a tool in the box, and he's too lazy (or?) to use it?
Helped a friend out with a branch over his house the other day,
it could not have been accessed via bucket truck, and a crane would have been swatting a fly with a buick...I rigged a speedline, butt tied it, dropped it.
My buddy cracked up..he thought that was neat as hell, then I climbed up and un bent his gutter where the branch dinged it on the way by...oops..his thought was, "well, if that had come down on the roof, it'd be a lot worse.
It would have been impossible to bomb that branch...at least at my limited skill level..I just could not get out there...:help:
Helped a friend out with a branch over his house the other day,
it could not have been accessed via bucket truck, and a crane would have been swatting a fly with a buick...I rigged a speedline, butt tied it, dropped it.
My buddy cracked up..he thought that was neat as hell, then I climbed up and un bent his gutter where the branch dinged it on the way by...oops..his thought was, "well, if that had come down on the roof, it'd be a lot worse.
It would have been impossible to bomb that branch...at least at my limited skill level..I just could not get out there...:help:
jomoco
Tree Freak
A neat little pristine lawn saving trick is to have your groundies build a landing pad over it with brushed limbs, and then bombing the wood down onto it rather than the lawn. It works great to about 40-50 feet up, after that it gets a little sketchy unless your real good at controlled bombing and wood orientation at point of impact on the brush pad.
It has it's uses on certain jobs and situations as a time saver.
jomoco
Blakesmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yup, that's one of my favorite methods, as well. I've even used sheets of plywood before too to save rigging time. There's no one size fits all approach to this gig.
senechal
ArboristSite Operative
Many owners that came up with limited to no rigging are going to be tough to entice, especially the smaller companies. You think selling a block and portawrap to your boss is tough, try a rigging plate, balancer slings, or most outrageous -- a GRCS.
With the exception of the GRCS, I built up my kit out of pocket and I use it at work whenever I see fit, despite what the work order demands.
Ridiculous Monday morning cut and chuck missions that trash your body for the rest of the week can go straight to hell. I call it an investment in my personal quality of life.
With the exception of the GRCS, I built up my kit out of pocket and I use it at work whenever I see fit, despite what the work order demands.
Ridiculous Monday morning cut and chuck missions that trash your body for the rest of the week can go straight to hell. I call it an investment in my personal quality of life.
Saw Dust Smoken
ArboristSite Operative
natural
Natural crotch will work. Running rope fast will smoke ya. Port'y will speed up groundies job. Use Pulley or large clevis on large tree jobs. Saves rope wear and tear.
Natural crotch will work. Running rope fast will smoke ya. Port'y will speed up groundies job. Use Pulley or large clevis on large tree jobs. Saves rope wear and tear.
ForTheArborist
Addicted to ArboristSite
Right here.
I need to step up the options. I feel so "old fashioned." Nothing wrong with that, but if I want to keep pace in a modern market with the modern gear that is available, I need to acquire some devices.
Some how I manage everything that comes my way without the good gear though. That makes me wonder now.
ozzy42
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yep,I do the same thing.A few bushy limbs placed in the drop zone works out good.
The only down side is the groundie has to get the chunks out of the pile in between cuts[wich can try the climbers patience at times,,,,,let's go already] otherwise,logs can take some unexpected weird bounces when they hit another log at freefall.
Same here.Been natural crotching it for a long time now.
Some of the stuff I've seen used lately could make some work a bit smoother.
Never had a rope failure yet,but have had some premature rope wear.
First thing I am going to try is the redirect loops for when out on a looooong limb, I like the idea of still being able to quickly descend the tree without having to get back near the trunk first.
bonker81
ArboristSite Member
It's probably just my inexperience talking but doesn't it make more sense to cut and drop? I'm learning how to climb and cut myself and it seems the more lines you have up there the more stuff there is to get caught on and go wrong, never mind a sizable chunk of wood bouncing around you. I can understand if there are obstacles below but for now my train of thought is make the cut and get it away from you and your equipment, grass grows back pretty fast.
outofmytree
Addicted to ArboristSite
My work is almost 100% confined removals with lawns, gardens, sheds, fences, houses and swimming pools to avoid. I sell my business on the simple basis of nothing gets broken and no one gets hurt. With that in mind if I can speed up the work and save my client money then I will "chop and drop" limbs with prior consent but I still end up rigging some part of almost every decent sized tree I remove. Just write it into the job and all will be well.
My .02c worth on natural crotch rigging. Buy a whoopie sling and a pulley. If you practise, setting up is fast, easy and the difference in rope wear is huge. Especially if whoever is holding the rope makes a mistake and lets a big one run.
My .02c worth on natural crotch rigging. Buy a whoopie sling and a pulley. If you practise, setting up is fast, easy and the difference in rope wear is huge. Especially if whoever is holding the rope makes a mistake and lets a big one run.
arbor pro
Addicted to ArboristSite
My work is almost 100% confined removals with lawns, gardens, sheds, fences, houses and swimming pools to avoid. I sell my business on the simple basis of nothing gets broken and no one gets hurt. With that in mind if I can speed up the work and save my client money then I will "chop and drop" limbs with prior consent but I still end up rigging some part of almost every decent sized tree I remove. Just write it into the job and all will be well.
My .02c worth on natural crotch rigging. Buy a whoopie sling and a pulley. If you practise, setting up is fast, easy and the difference in rope wear is huge. Especially if whoever is holding the rope makes a mistake and lets a big one run.
It shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes to set up a portawrap and lowering block. It's worth it to save the abrasion wear on your rope.
As for saving time by just dropping chunks vs rigging them down, I'd agree that, so long as the HO is on board with it, it's the fastest and cheapest way to take a tree down if there's ample room in the DZ to allow for it. We use brush and smaller logs to buffer the impact of larger stuff just as others have mentioned. If we have the mini skid along, it doesn't take much effort to pull the debris pile apart when finished. if we don't have the mini along, it's not so much fun.
Someone mentioned using plywood - seems like that would easily shatter when a log end butts it (try as you may, you'll end butt one every now and then). Can/does anyone use the AlturnaMats for ground protection or will end butting a log on them cause them to crack or break?
