Nursery's selling habits

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Gopher

ArboristSite Operative
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What do we need to do to change the habits of nursery owners?



I ask this question (perhaps some of you are nursery people) because many of the issues we arborists deal with every day (especially concerning tree health) can be traced back to the "right tree for the right place" concept. It is my estimation after twenty our so years working on and studying trees that if someone walks into a nursery and wants apaper birch, that's what they will walk out with.

I am not implying that trying non-native species can't work, but to the degree that is still practiced I question.

This ties in with Nickrosis's post asking about how many of us think about the soil when we go to look at trees. If a nursery is going to sell someone a B&B tree that will reach a mature height of greater than, say twenty feet or so, then I think there should be a required soil sample showing that this tree has a least a fair chance to reach maturity. If the silvics of a species says the tree should be around for 75 years, and the soil is such that there is little chance of it making 30, then sorry, you'll have to choose something else.

I bring up the size because we can do an awfull lot with shrubs and smaller plants due to the fact that the root/soil volume is much easier to manipulate.

I realize I may be standing way up on my preaching pedestal, but isn't this where we ought to start? The soil and the new trees being planted always at a much greater rate than the professional care that can be applied to them down the road.

How many trees can the average city lot really hold? Not as many as the number we sometimes find. On Friday last week, we looked at the cost involved in removing an 80' silver maple from in front of a house. There are two maples about eight to ten feet on each side (somewhat smaller), the trunk flare has grown over the sidewalk, and the tree limbs reach over three homes and two sets of their power lines running to the homes. All three trees are chlorotic, and are starting to decline. You've all seen similar situations.

These trees were all planted there. There is not even room for one, but at least if there was only one, it would be healthier, and it would cost the current homeowner a bit less to have it sheped up or possibly removed. See my point?

Look at Tree Care Industry this month. We can do some wonderful things in preserving trees with structural pruning given the chance. However, we need to plant fewer trees and take care of a greater percentage of the ones that are there.

Thanks for listening. It's 90+ degrees and humid, so I really didn't feel like climbing today, and the fertilizer was getting a bit sticky.

Gopher
 
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Your asking an industry to save the ignoprant client from themselves. Where I get steamed is the design/install people that put in inappropriate materials. Often to many of them.

Using your birch scenario, down here a paper birch on a southern exposure will not last long, Tey want theri roots in cool soil, move put the tree on a north grade and it will do fine.

Why do they alwayd put river birch in little mound in a driveway circle? Norway maple woithout doing a perc test....

The one thing the nursery industry could do to make me happy is harvest only after the first order roots are exposed.
 
nurseryman

traced back to the "right tree for the right place" concept.


hey mate:i've cut tress and done landscaping for the pass 25 years and i'll give another point of view on this matter.
a homeowner coming in to purchase a tree (most times)has little or no insight as to what's needed for a tree to grow healthy,and doesn't know what questions to pose to the grower.so i don't think anyone's to blame.
the nurseryman i do business with is more generous with his time as i ask endless landscaping questions.
many of my clients will tell me they desire this plant/shrub in a certain spot.i feel it's my job to direct them as to what item will work where and why.
jack
 
A little extreme? I see nothing wrong with planting a tree that will most likely be around only a few years as long as the person knows this, what's wrong with that? Planting in the wrong place size wise is something totally different.
I have no degrees, but I've been to quite a few seminars and classes put on by some top industry people. One thing that I still don't understand is the huge deal some people make about checking the soil and amending etc.. Look around and you'll see tons of examples where trees and shrubs shouldn't be doing well and they're fine, mostly the neglected ones! So they may have to be removed down the road? Theres not much you can to do to improve the urban environment short of mulching and fertilizing as needed. I think planting natives if you want something that can deal with the local environment and be around for a long time is the best way to go.
It's all for looks, ornamentals are what most people want, no problem. I did talk a customer out of a weeping willow in her 4000 sg ft backyd.Twice now!:p
 
An aquaintance of mine puts in a small silver CO spruce beside her pation every 4-5 years. It gets too big for het tastes, it gets replaced.

I agree with your caveat "as the person knows this". Many times I have told the client it is not a good species for the site only to hear "Why didn't they tell me that!" The on I love is "this landscape was proffesionaly installed." Well now I'm giving a proffesional opinion:D
 
Yes, I always do my best to educate the customer and help them as best as I can. I tell them up front what my services are, what the costs will be. Then there are those that expect the world and unless you save their wrong tree wrong place, they think you've done nothing for them.

In any event, our society is now and has been for sometime the get it now and I want it now, and our industry is no different. It would be nice if there were more people like the woman who cuts down and replaces her colorado spruce every four or five years, but that just doesn't happen too often.

In between my first post and this one, I did some work for ROW specs (electric co-op) and the same thing; "Can we legally get these trees out of here?" and "I just don't know if we can inforce this easement in the more rural sector."

Thank you for the heartfelt responses.

Gopher
 
Utility can always offer a replacemnt tree of a small/medium species to the customer that suffering the loss. The right tree for the location.
 
I had a long and wonderful response to all this, but the window suddenly closed, and it's all gone. :( :( You're spared! :)

The gist was that we're plagued by a lack of understanding in all areas of the green industry for a number of reasons, some of them being the extreme variability we deal with, climatic differences, high turnover, lack of interest from science, greed, and a fairly recent origin.

Gopher, I'm fascinated by the same topics that fascinate you - we need to exchange more e-mails than we do. The fact is that all too often, tree people consider trees to the exclusion of the rest of the yard and property. Conversely, landscapers will pulverize a root zone for a flower bed without batting an eye.

I'm out to change that in my own life by reconciling the tree side of me with my heart, the landscape side. These two belong as one, but they presently are not. As an aside, I hope to reconcile the environment with the economy (my heart, also). It seems hopeless, but I'll die trying!

This was supposed to be my long e-mail for the night. Consider yourselves lucky! :)

Nickrosis
 
gopher.....

over the last 8 1/2 years of dealing w/ customers in the
nursery business, i can tell you one thing............
the customer will buy what-ever they want and plant it
where-ever they want, when-ever they want!!!!!
sure, there are times when you can qualify the customer
and get them what they need, not what they think they
want. 9 times out of 10 they buy what they want. it's not
the nurserymen selling the wrong trees to customers.......
it's the customers buying what they think they want.
later,
budroe:cool:
 
Nurseries are not to blame

How many clients have told you "This tree is planted in our: new home development/business park/as a street tree/in the parking lot etc etc. So that is what I want for myself...

The real culprit is the LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT. These are the ones naming the inappropriate species in the intitial specifications,not designing accountablility in installation specifications and creating monocultures by using only those species that the nurseries can buy at a low cost.
Although I have heard of class action suits naming the landscape installation companies in the suits. Somtimes as much as 5-7 years after the work was completed...

I think the nurseries have many issues to work on as well, for example: topping young trees to increase foliar growth, "skinning" the stems to make the trees narrower to increase storage room, importing species recognized in many communities as invasive species
(scotch broom, thank you Home Depot)
Frans
 
I totally agree w. you Frans, but I would also blame the installers too for the most part. The Landscapers that get the big install jobs are in it for the bucks only , it's highly competitive. If they can save 2 minutes by not cutting the strap tying the burlap around the top of the ball it's not done! They throw them in the ground only digging deep enough to keep them standing if they can or if they have an auger on a skidsteer plop them in as deep as the hole happened to go. Maybe this is only in my area:rolleyes: So much building going on around here it seems like they're making land where you didn't think there was any!
 
Yes, it all goes back to site and soil. Dirt is a four letter word.

Amen to what Nick said. It is a system and most people don't realize how it all works TOGETHER.

Here in Austin we have very basic soils and VERY hot summers. Having said this, why do I still see people planting silver leaf maple? Logic just says that a tree native to eastern Canada will not do well in Texas. Reality proves it.

We have enough laws and protection codes as is. The last thing we need are more laws.

Next time you are with a (good)customer that is eagerly seeing your wisdom, take the time to give them a short course on soils.

Nate
 
comment on native species

i remember reading somewhere that the use of native plants may not always be appropriate due to the changing of the environment from that of "native conditions". on the one hand a native tree may also have a better ability or propensity to adapt to smaller net changes. on the other hand a selected species specific to the site may be more appropriate and adaptable for success.

jps - i do believe in revolution.
 
God made the dry land first, then the plants. But the job was done in only a day.

If we only had an employee like that.....

jps - Macro-evolution is not the origin of the universe, I can tell you that.
 
Anyone else ever claim to be a practitioner of the world's oldest profession? It gets some confused looks but I have supporting documentation. Read Genesis chapter 2.
 
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