OWB v. Wood Stove

[Windwalker7]

this thread kinda reminds of the guy at the local restaurant who tokes on a big cigar in the booth right beside yours and the whole area is totally engulfed in a cloud of stale smoke while you and your family try to choke your steak quickly so you can leave. its the old "hey thats just too bad for them cause its my right to smoke up the place if i want to " attitude that gets wood burning bans started and then everyone suffers.seems to me if a guy wants to deal with 8 -10 cords only to heat a small house and or shop running his OWB thats fine with me...its his back ,that is totally your right but smoking up the neighborhood is irresponible IMHO .and regardless of what applicance you prefer if your going to burn wood atleast dont be an a$$ about it , season the stuff first. green wood has just over half the BTU of properly seasoned wood and time and preparation is *free! so dont make extra work for yourself and smoke up the town because your lazy and inconsiderate

Let's face it, if you're burning wood, your making smoke somewhere.


So if my neighbor has a coal furnace and I don't like the smell of coal smoke, I should complain?

My neighbor has chickens and I don't like them crowing, I should complain?

I don't like the smell of my neighbor's horses, I should complain?

I don't like the sound of the firemen's siren on Saturday afternoons at 1:00, I should complain?

I don't like all the people when they have a parade down my street, I should complain?

I don't like the construction crew patching potholes on my road, I should complain?

I don't like the smell of your wife's perfume in the booth next to me at a resteraunt, I should complain?

I don't like your kids giggling and laughing at the park, I should complain?

There are lots of things we can all complain about, how come we didn't have these problems 50 years ago? Everyone heated with wood and coal. Cars didn't have polution standards. There was polution everywhere yet you didn't hear all the whining you hear today.


We are getting waaaaay off topic here aren't we?

 

[MishMouse]

I'll list some advantages of an OWB. I'll include what others have and expand a few.

5...you can burn green or wood that isn't quite seasoned yet.

17... People give you wood that they won't burn indoors. especially pine. I get lots of free pine. i had a buch of wood given to me that was infested with termites. People give me rotted stuff too. It all burns in the OWB

People burning green or unseasoned wood is the main reason why OWB are getting banned. There are some OWB that obtain very high efficiencies, but dry seasoned wood must be used.

As for a OWB using 60% more wood then a wood stove. That is true if you are comparing a EPA stove burning well seasoned wood, to a Non-gassification OWB using green wood.


Burning green wood in any wood burning appliance either it a furnace, a wood stove or a OWB is a waste of wood and heat.

If the salesman tells you something different they are lying!
Ask yourself how much heat is wasted drying the wood to get it to combust?

 

[Steve NW WI]

Man, you OWB guys are organized - what are you, union? I'm a happy woodstove owner, so I'll take windwalker's post and shine the light of the woodstove on it. Notice I said stove, not cute little fireplace or room sized woodburner. I refer mainly to my big old woodchuck, which was designed as a wood furnace, but is not connected to my ductwork, so it functions as a stove only.

I'll list some advantages of an OWB. I'll include what others have and expand a few.

1...Ashes and ash dust are outside
True. I have to dump my ash pan once every 2-3 days, and take the ash can out about once a week. Dust is minimal.

2...wood chips, sawdust, bark are outside
Yes. I do have a broom and dustpan, and have to use it.

3...No need to split into small pieces
Mine will take a 12" round 24" long through the door. This isn't an optimal size for burning inside or out, IMHO I split mine to roughly 4x6, a size fairly easy to grab one handed. This helps get wood seasoned better and faster as well.

4...insects outside (you can burn the infested stuff others are afraid to bring in their home)
With green wood, I can see a problem. I have not seen an insect problem with dry, seasoned wood. Ants, grubs, etc seem to move elsewhere when it dries out.

5...you can burn green or wood that isn't quite seasoned yet.
Not touching the green issue, been covered enough above. Not quite seasoned wood will dry nicely if left stacked near the stove for a few days.

6...no fire hazard inside your home
True, but no danger of a broken water line, HX, etc flooding the house either.

7...no smoke inside your home
Not a big problem for me, a lot has to do with learning how to operate the stove.

8...abiltity to heat your domestic hot water and shut off the electric or gas to it. this saves me $$$
I'll give you that one, but as Kieth mentions, they can be added to wood furnaces as well.

9...the ability to heat more than one building (house and garage, two homes, home and work shop, etc...)
This would be one reason for me to look into an OWB when I get a shop built, but if I heat the shop all winter, and only spend an hour or two a day + weekends in there, I'm wasting wood keeping it warm. Another woodstove would work there, better in my case.

10...usually fill twice a day.
Same here.

11...no chimney fire to worry about. just let the creosote burn out of the chimney and watch the fireworks
I check my chimney every couple of weeks, and clean if needed. I'd put chimney fire risk at very low here.

12...the temp in the house can be controled with the thermostat to adjust to your liking.
True, I have warm spots and cool spots. Hang out where you're comfortable.

13...air is not as dry in house
Humidifiers are inexpensive, I run one most all winter.

14...everything is pretty much automatic. no need to constantly play with draft or damper.
I don't spend much time playing with dampers, and if I do, it's a quick turn while walking by the stove, something I do plenty of.

15...did i mention you never run out of hot water?
Neither do I, although I plan on ditching the way oversized propane HWH for a tankless model soon. I use hot water mainly 3 hours a day or so, no need to keep it warm the other 21. That will make the gas guy even lonelier.

16... Many ways to heat home, I have half my home with radiant floor heat and the other half forced air
OK, you got me, but I'm not personally a fan of the breeze from the forced air.

17... People give you wood that they won't burn indoors. especially pine. I get lots of free pine. i had a buch of wood given to me that was infested with termites. People give me rotted stuff too. It all burns in the OWB

Pine burns just fine properly seasoned, just ask those way up north or in the PNW.[/quote]

Now, the other woodstove advantages:

Nice place to warm yourself up in a hurry after a cold day outside.

No need to get dressed up to go feed the beast when it's -30°outside, just toss in a few blocks (careful not to drop wood on your feet while wearing slippers!)

On warmer days, I just let the fire out, and relight when the house cools off. I don't need to keep all that water hot to have "heat on demand". Maybe this is where some of the wood savings comes from.

No need to fire up a generator to keep warm when the power goes out.

Bringing wood inside is good exercise. Maybe not much of an advantage, but it gets me in better shape. My cardio routine is grab an armload, couple steps to the house, up 3 stairs, couple of steps, down 12 stairs, few more steps, stack wood, and repeat as needed. I can keep enough inside to last through any cold/snowy snap, and bring it in when it's nice.

Probably some others I didn't think of as well.

 

[flotek]

Let's face it, if you're burning wood, your making smoke somewhere.


So if my neighbor has a coal furnace and I don't like the smell of coal smoke, I should complain?

My neighbor has chickens and I don't like them crowing, I should complain?

I don't like the smell of my neighbor's horses, I should complain?

I don't like the sound of the firemen's siren on Saturday afternoons at 1:00, I should complain?

I don't like all the people when they have a parade down my street, I should complain?

I don't like the construction crew patching potholes on my road, I should complain?

I don't like the smell of your wife's perfume in the booth next to me at a resteraunt, I should complain?

I don't like your kids giggling and laughing at the park, I should complain?

There are lots of things we can all complain about, how come we didn't have these problems 50 years ago? Everyone heated with wood and coal. Cars didn't have polution standards. There was polution everywhere yet you didn't hear all the whining you hear today.


We are getting waaaaay off topic here aren't we?

yes every wood appliance smokes to some extent but my chimney is 25 feet off the ground not 4 ..and of coarse im not condoning people to complain over every little thing that annoys like the colorful list you chose but what im trying to say that if your going to burn ..burn dry seasoned wood and not junk not sopping wet wood or car tires ,theres a way to be respectful about it (it effects other people beside yourself)without peeving everyone off in your neighborhood,im not concerned with cfcs pollution al gores mansions carbon footprint lol or any of the nonsense the government makes up these days ,just saying be considerate when doing it thats all

 

[Spotted Owl]

Man, you OWB guys are organized - what are you, union? I'm a happy woodstove owner, so I'll take windwalker's post and shine the light of the woodstove on it. Notice I said stove, not cute little fireplace or room sized woodburner. I refer mainly to my big old woodchuck, which was designed as a wood furnace, but is not connected to my ductwork, so it functions as a stove only.


Pine burns just fine properly seasoned, just ask those way up north or in the PNW.

Now, the other woodstove advantages:

Nice place to warm yourself up in a hurry after a cold day outside.

No need to get dressed up to go feed the beast when it's -30°outside, just toss in a few blocks (careful not to drop wood on your feet while wearing slippers!)

On warmer days, I just let the fire out, and relight when the house cools off. I don't need to keep all that water hot to have "heat on demand". Maybe this is where some of the wood savings comes from.

No need to fire up a generator to keep warm when the power goes out.

Bringing wood inside is good exercise. Maybe not much of an advantage, but it gets me in better shape. My cardio routine is grab an armload, couple steps to the house, up 3 stairs, couple of steps, down 12 stairs, few more steps, stack wood, and repeat as needed. I can keep enough inside to last through any cold/snowy snap, and bring it in when it's nice.

Probably some others I didn't think of as well.[/QUOTE]


Lots of good stuff here, Thanks. In the aspect of one v. the other, the above IMO is the best yet. This is exactly the type of response I was looking for. If there is more of this type response I would surely like to see it. I like the union crack too. Seems like the OWB have a staunch following in the wood burning arena. Are there any stove users or furnace users that have the same staunchness to them?

Hard to keep this from a bickering match, I'm surprised with the restraint so far, Thankyou.

This is being printed out and given to friend of mine that is going to wood heat. He is trying to decide what wood heat device he will be installing. He has no computer so I said I would get the info I could from people that actually use these type animals for heat. Retro an OWB into an existing house will be no problem in his set up. A furnace could possibly be tapped to his existing duct work, depending on how a chimney would have to be worked into the equation extreme last on the list. That last one with the chimney is why he was looking for more of the stove/OWB.

If you have anymore he would appreciate it.



Owl

 

[Marc]

Just one more flaw I'd like to point out to those comparing the smoke from an OWB to things like noise or innocuous odors like manure-

While the former may be nuisances, it's not a fair comparison with wood smoke because wood smoke, especially the kind produced from burning wood incompletely, is actually a health hazard, especially with repeated exposure. Burning good dry wood with my 25 foot indoor chimney creates less bad stuff, and what it does create stays up high until it has a chance to diffuse to safer concentrations.

Smoke created burning incompletely, especially burning green wood, is cooler, doesn't have the buoyancy, and is being released from a chimney (in most OWB cases) much closer to the ground.

If I was smoking out my neighbor on a regular basis, and they complained, that doesn't fall in the same category IMHO as the people who just like to complain about their neighbors for the sake of complaining. If there's a legitimate health concern, then it's a legitimate complaint.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Fprgot one thing. With the difference in price between a stove and an OWB, you can buy a decent wood hauler, a splitter, and of course a couple saws.

 

[twofer]

If you have anymore he would appreciate it.
Owl

One of the positive aspects that I have failed to point out is that if he is even considering going the OWB route he can get a gasification boiler with thermal storage for the same amount of cost as an OWB. How do I know this? Because I was at the same crossroad last year.

With a gasification boiler setup with thermal storage he can realize all the benefits of an OWB but at the same time have a highly efficient unit that uses less wood and burns much cleaner.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Man, you OWB guys are organized - what are you, union? I'm a happy woodstove owner,.

We aint as bad a bunch as some would like you to believe. Been two months since I kicked an old lady, a year since I pinched a baby,,, uh,, couple since I robbed a bank,,,,,,,

 

[CrappieKeith]

We aint as bad a bunch as some would like you to believe. Been two months since I kicked an old lady, a year since I pinched a baby,,, uh,, couple since I robbed a bank,,,,,,,

Oh somebody gotta take this guy down...LOL
Butch,You sound like a good egg!

 

[Windwalker7]

Just one more flaw I'd like to point out to those comparing the smoke from an OWB to things like noise or innocuous odors like manure-

While the former may be nuisances, it's not a fair comparison with wood smoke because wood smoke, especially the kind produced from burning wood incompletely, is actually a health hazard, especially with repeated exposure. Burning good dry wood with my 25 foot indoor chimney creates less bad stuff, and what it does create stays up high until it has a chance to diffuse to safer concentrations.

Smoke created burning incompletely, especially burning green wood, is cooler, doesn't have the buoyancy, and is being released from a chimney (in most OWB cases) much closer to the ground.

If I was smoking out my neighbor on a regular basis, and they complained, that doesn't fall in the same category IMHO as the people who just like to complain about their neighbors for the sake of complaining. If there's a legitimate health concern, then it's a legitimate complaint.

What if you are not smoking out your neighbor?

Seems like most of the OWB owners here don't have neighbors or their neighbor has an OWB too.

You'd think that if these OWBs pumped out all this smoke that the actual owner would have the biggest problem with it. After all, their home would be closest.

Everything these days is a health hazard. the food we eat, the car we drive, even the medicine we take.

It would be interesting to know how many that complain about OWBs, smoke ciggarettes.

 

[John D]

As an OWB owner,I took neighbors into consideration before purchasing and determining where to put my OWB.If I didnt live where I live or own 22 acres,I wouldnt have bought one.ITs ppl that do not have enough property or distance between them and there neighbors that have the problems.I burn dry wood,but every once in a while it will smoke pretty good if you load it at the wrong time...in general mine smokes no more than an average wood stove.

 

[yodayoda]

As an OWB owner,I took neighbors into consideration before purchasing and determining where to put my OWB.If I didnt live where I live or own 22 acres,I wouldnt have bought one.ITs ppl that do not have enough property or distance between them and there neighbors that have the problems.I burn dry wood,but every once in a while it will smoke pretty good if you load it at the wrong time...in general mine smokes no more than an average wood stove.

Yup, same here

 

[bowtechmadman]

Twofer... I'd be crazy if I told you I wouldn't want more BTU's from my wood. Of course I'd like to burn less wood. Have what I have at this point and don't intend to go down the road for another 10 grand till I have to. I agree the gassifiers (from what I hear) are more efficient than an owb, and I have encouraged a few friends that were looking at OWB's to check out the gassifiers.
I just won't go to burning inside again other than a fireplace for asthetics. I grew up humping wood into the basement and having to clean up after...lol not again.
Steve...I don't heat my barn full time, running that loop on a seperate pump, I like the ability to just turn the pump on to heat up the barn rather than having to build a fire. No doubt she can really burn some wood when i've got the pump on for the barn.
I'm for all wood burning...just keep the propane and oil trucks away, just prefer the advantages of having my fire away from my home. Biggest hurdle before installing was my wife's fear of being able to smell it. I've run it year around in the past and never once had her mention the smoke smell except a couple times when it was very overcast and rainy and the smoke just settled. So kinda confused w/ neighbors etc being able to smell it.
Burn seasoned and safe everyone!

 

[Marc]

What if you are not smoking out your neighbor?

Seems like most of the OWB owners here don't have neighbors or their neighbor has an OWB too.

You'd think that if these OWBs pumped out all this smoke that the actual owner would have the biggest problem with it. After all, their home would be closest.

Everything these days is a health hazard. the food we eat, the car we drive, even the medicine we take.

It would be interesting to know how many that complain about OWBs, smoke ciggarettes.

Well if you noticed, nowhere in my post did I claim that all OWB users are smoking out your neighbors. If you took your neighbors into consideration before purchasing, and knew the smoke wouldn't reach them, kudos. That's being responsible. I don't have any problem with that. I was addressing a few posts earlier in the thread that compared complaints about smoke with other relatively innocuous nuisances. My point was, it's not a good comparison. That's all.

And I think the "everything these days is a health hazard" attitude is a cop out. You had me agreeing with you until then. It's pretty indisputable that repeated exposure to wood smoke is a health hazard and if it's one you can't control because you live down wind of a smoke dragon, then there's a good reason for complaint. That situation is then no different than someone dumping something harmful upstream into the water supply and not caring about those living downstream.

 

[rob206]

Hmmm. A nice spirited debate here. I chose an OWB over a woodstove for a couple reasons. One, the price of a stainless steel chimney for the woodstove brought the total package close to the price of the boiler total package. Two, I can heat my hot water. There are other reasons as well, but most have already been hashed out in previous posts.

I won't claim an OWB is better, just different set of advantages. Some day I would like to have a woodstove maily because I love watching a fire. The boiler will stay however.

Gasser vs traditional OWB. Yes, maybe they smoke less, but the pictures of OWB's you guys have seen are all the same. Those pictures get recycled and are used by every states' EPA or department of air quality or whatever gov't agency is trying to shut down the use of OWB's. I think CB is heading in the right direction with their E classic. Still some problems to workout on them though. I don't know if my 5036 achieves secondary combustion, but I can tell you that when it is buring good there is very little smoke.

Also, for all the gassers here, let me point out that the EPA is not your friend. They do not condone or like wood burning. They merely tolerate it and suggest that if you must burn wood at least use EPA certified appliances. See, that is code for their true intentions which are to eliminate wood burning.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Also, for all the gassers here, let me point out that the EPA is not your friend. They do not condone or like wood burning. They merely tolerate it and suggest that if you must burn wood at least use EPA certified appliances. See, that is code for their true intentions which are to eliminate wood burning.

Now Ill give you a BIG 10-4 for that statement and add that you EPA stove guys are in the same group of scum as us boiler owners. You are TOLERATED for now because they need YOU to fight us as they phase in control. But you dont need to believe me, just follow the path of control in places where it started. Read about how a person cannot heat with a wood fire of a ANY kind before you come back and say BS Butch(OH).

Anyone who heats with a wood appliance of any kind should be arm and arm, not bickering over who puts a bit less stuff in the air.

 

[czar800]

Now Ill give you a BIG 10-4 for that statement and add that you EPA stove guys are in the same group of scum as us boiler owners. You are TOLERATED for now because they need YOU to fight us as they phase in control. But you dont need to believe me, just follow the path of control in places where it started. Read about how a person cannot heat with a wood fire of a ANY kind before you come back and say BS Butch(OH).

Anyone who heats with a wood appliance of any kind should be arm and arm, not bickering over who puts a bit less stuff in the air.

BIG 10-4.... Good post!!





.

 

[603doug]

I have had the indoor boiler, wood stove and last year bought an out door gassifer and love it No smoke, no mess inside, efficient as one can expect from a wood burner.
New Hampshire passed the epa crap last year, do not get me wrong I have a friend who if it will burn he considers it heat and I would shoot him if I lived next door from the smoke. But the typical scheme will be if you have one there will be a carbon tax to use it because of the harm you are causing and the lost revenue from fuel taxes. "Why should I pay and not you" attitude, just because we pay the land taxes and try to get something off the property to help offset the taxes and keep the land undeveloped "for the children"
Sorry off subject love my wood boiler

 

[slowp]

Scott,

I saw a lot of those "little metal houses" during my exile in Wisconsin. I think it is more of a midwest thing. My boss had one. It came with his house when he bought it. He didn't use it for his house but used it to heat a greenhouse. I think the lines to the house froze up and burst too. He liked having a woodstove to hunker up to.

My neighbor in town had one. It usually was OK but I swear sometimes he'd burn garbage in that thing, or green wood and it sure did make the neighborhood unpleasant. The things, along with woodstoves, probably aren't the best things to use frequently when living in town.

I don't believe I've seen any OWBs out here. Note that most of these guys live in a more severe climate. I also wonder about the legality of the OWBs.
Warshington State has passed tougher air quality standards than our dreaded neighbor to the south--Collyfonia. For woodstoves that is. I don't know about Oregon.

The OWBs work like radiant heat? Am I correct? That takes a while to heat up a house. Of course, my wood stove is taking a while right now. But I can hunker up to it and warm up during that time.

My concern here is about power outages. We have wind and floods and such.
I can heat and cook with my woodstove during those times.

As for running out to the woodpile in cold weather. You upper midwest people would consider our cold snaps balmy. But the downer is going out to the woodpile during the monsoon, not wearing gloves, and grabbing a slug that is attached to the chunk of wood. ICKY!