Oxman Kickin A$$ at 125ft

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Take that you dirty hippy!!


a supposed eco tourist phucking guide

Nice writing skills does he kiss his momma with that mouth??!!

That or what kind of guide service do you run Ox??

Eric was in the process of grinding out a tree-sitter when another sitter free climbed the same tree in an attempt to get above the climbers to prevent the splintering of the tree named "Allah" by local forest defenders. When they figured out what was taking place, they resorted to torture and outright brutality

What was taking place was a guy getting above them where he could cut their life line. Try to get above me and cut my life line at 125 feet, you will get more than an elbow in the throat and a little rope rash. I think he showed a lot of restraint.

Ox, you are my new hero. What does that job pay per sitter removed??

All the joy of tree climbing without the need for a chipper. That, and you carry a stihl chopsaw instead of a chainsaw.
 
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i'm sorry if the story is slanted but if not.....what a dam looser. he may as well just work as a bouncer at a local biker bar. i think any one that cheers him on is a little twisted. i'd rather be home less than need the money that bad. what a tool. how much do they pay for an eviction? i 'll send a check to leave them there or is it more macho to throw them out?


how would you feel if that was your kid up there protesting getting his ass kicked?
 
Originally posted by kf_tree
i'm sorry if the story is slanted but if not.....what a dam looser.

Geee, do you think it is slanted.....???? Most respected, unbiased publications use the F word.

how would you feel if that was your kid up there protesting getting his ass kicked?

I would feel like he was getting a valuable lesson on private property rights. You don't violate or trespass on others PRIVATE property. That and a lesson in you don't get near someone's life line. I would also hope that he would accept the consequences of his actions.

This guy was free climbing at 125' - they were doing what they had to to save him from himself.

That kid was learning a lesson. People learn from getting hurt. This kid just learned. Some lessons hurt - trust me, from someone who used to rebel against authority, I know.
 
Get'em Ox!!! Nice work but like TREETX said, try to cut my lifeline and I'll THROW you out of the tree if I can get my hands on you!!!
So Kf, I suppose that you have no problem with the vandilism and ILLEGAL treaspassing that tree sitters are known for?? Not to mention the treespiking and tunnling under logging roads as well as burning equipment!!!:angry: :angry:
 
hmph

I'm a tree-hugger, so I'd never help get sitters down. I have respect for people that are willing to put their lives on hold to protect the few old growth trees that are remaining. However, at that height, you'd have to be mean with them to get 'em down. Who wants to be fighting at 100'!? The only reason the people want the sitters down is money. Power to the sitters!!!! (except the one's who try to cut climbers' ropes!

love
nick
 
Trespassing is a CRIMINAL offense!!! Obviosly you have NO respect for people's property!! That was PRIVATE property that they were trespassing on, as long as it doesn't physicaly HURT or harm others then what someone wants to do on THEIR property is THEIR business NOT YOURS!!!:angry: :angry:
 
This links back to the same topic a while ago. It does come down to how a person justifies their civil disobedience.

When I think about civil disobedience and its supporters and detractors I have to think back to the Boston Tea Party. Where the Bostonians justified in coming onto private property and chucking the tea into the harbor? What about the sit ins during the Civil Rights actions during the sixties? Has anyone ever seen the film footage of the police dogs being sicced on the peaceful protests? Is that justified?

There is a big difference between taking part in an action as a professional law enforecemnt and being "under orders" than being hired as an outsider to boot the tree sitters.

Tom
 
Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
kf- you speak as if those are sweet little innocent bystanders being evicted from the trees. I got news for ya, they have broken many laws and exhibited a complete disregard for law and order as well as their safety and the safety of others. They are selfish, immature lawbreakers who should be arrested for tresspassing. The problem comes because police officers cannot reach the criminals. Ox is simply using his abilities to assist law enforcement officers.

If it was my kid up there protesting I'd go up and kick his ass myself before turning him over to the police for prosecution.

Ditto.
 
A monkey with a grinder?

Maybe I don't belong in this crowd. Let's see, anything, any danger, any pain is justified in defense of private property.

Dropping someone out of a tree will certainly teach them a lesson--at least right up to the impact.

<i>Ox is simply using his abilities to assist law enforcement officers.</i>

Right. Maybe when he gets old and infirm, or falls out of some tree himself, he can go down to Eureka CA and help hold down protesters so those morons with guns on their hip can swab pepper spray right on the eyes of the activists.


http://www.cnn.com/EARTH/9710/31/pepper.spray.update/pepper.38.mov


Why don't you all debate whether losing a fingernail while firing a cruise missle at Iraq should qualify for a Purple Heart? I'm sure that would be a high moral dilemma for this group. How about pushing old people in front of buses to reduce the Medicare rolls? Maybe that could be assisting a bureaucrat from the Department of the Budget?

This is really the seamy underbelly of some people I respected. How much hypocracy and shyt can be packed in one topic? Maybe I should go back and read the posts about the picture of the supposedly battered woman. Not us, tsk, tsk. Certainly not us.

Trespassing, my ass. There ought to be sanctuary in trees just like churches. I need a break from this primitive vulgar hooting. I'll respect your right to write stupidly, but I don't have to read it.


Wulkowicz

<hr>

Pepper Spray Trial Begins

by Nicholas Wilson
Use of the chemical weapon on non-violent sit-in demonstrators was unprecedented

SAN FRANCISCO -- An officer dips a cotton swab into a cup of pepper spray, then smears it into the eyes of 16-year-old Maya Portugal as another officer holds her head back and spreads her eyelids. The officers do the same to three other young women whose wrists are locked together with Portugal's. A scene from a torture chamber in some banana republic? It happened in Eureka, California in the district office of Congressman Frank Riggs on October 16, 1997.

TV network broadcasts of police videos showing the young forest activists moaning and writhing in pain outraged viewers nationwide. The use of the chemical weapon on non-violent sit-in demonstrators was unprecedented, and even California's ultra-conservative Attorney General said it was beyond accepted police community standards. An FBI investigation begun last fall continues.

Trial began August 10 in a federal civil rights suit filed by nine of the activists who were swabbed or sprayed at close range. Dubbed Headwaters Forest Defense vs. Humboldt County, the suit charges officers used excessive force. The activists seek an injunction against using chemical weapons on peaceful protesters plus damages for pain and suffering.

The incident at Riggs' office closely followed two other incidents when pepper spray was used on sit-in protesters who had locked their wrists together inside metal pipes. On September 25, seven activists sat locked in a circle in the lobby of Pacific Lumber Company's Scotia offices to protest the logging of ancient redwood forests. On October 3, two young men locked arms through the tracks of a logging bulldozer at Bear Creek. The protests all centered on the Headwaters Forest acquisition deal brokered by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, which activists insist would allow Pacific Lumber to circumvent the Endangered Species Act.


Humboldt County has been called the "Deep North"

Humboldt is a large and sparsely populated county in California's northwest corner. For 150 years its economy has been based primarily on logging. Today it is the location of virtually all the unprotected old-growth redwood forest left in the world, the bulk of it on Pacific Lumber land. Only 4 percent of the original virgin redwood rainforest remains uncut, much of that in state and federal parks. For most of the last decade, Humboldt forest activists have struggled to halt logging of ancient trees, especially in the Headwaters Forest, which is home to the Marbled Murrelet, Northern Spotted Owl, Coho salmon and other endangered species.

Arcata attorney Mark Harris says Humboldt County has been called the "Deep North," a reference to brutality against civil rights activists in the Deep South during the sixties. In 1990, Harris got a federal injunction to stop county jailers from shaving the heads of jailed Redwood Summer protesters. Humboldt Sheriff Dennis Lewis testified that there was hostility to forestry activists in his county, and even members of his own family had told him he ought to "hang them."

U.S. District Court Judge Vaughn Walker is a Republican appointee with a reputation for being strict and conservative. Walker last fall refused an injunction to immediately block use of pepper spray on non-violent demonstrators, saying he wasn't going to "second-guess" officers in the field. He has ruled against allowing any evidence about the topic of Headwaters, but also barred the defense from portraying the activists as Earth First! extremists, saying the trial must be narrowly focused on the issue of excessive force. Although the jury will decide the case and the amount of damages to award if they find for the plaintiffs, Walker alone will decide if the defendants must pay legal bills for the activists if they win.

The six-person jury consists of five women and one man with ages ranging from early thirties to late seventies, and a racial mix of Whites, Asians and Hispanics.

The legal team for the activists has won against Pacific Lumber before. Boulder attorney Macon Cowles, associate Susan O'Neill of La Jolla, and Harris sued Pacific Lumber successfully in 1995 in the first Endangered Species Act case ever to prevent logging on private property.

The nine plaintiffs are Molly Burton, Vernell "Spring" Lundberg, Michael McCurdy, Eric Neuwirth, Maya Portugal, Lisa Sanderson-Fox, Jennifer Schneider, Terri Slanetz, and Noel Tendick. They range in age from 16 to 40, with most of them on the younger end of that range.


The case for the Headwaters activists
With the jury seated, each side gave an opening statement, summarizing their case.

Cowles said pepper spray was first approved in California in 1992, but only for use by law enforcement officers against violent suspects. Pepper spray is a concentrated extract of hot cayenne peppers, and is also called oleoresin capsicum (OC). It causes severe burning pain, temporary blindness and inflammation of the eyes, paralysis of the larynx, difficulty in breathing and disorientation.

Cowles told the jury that Humboldt forestry protests had been going on for years, especially since Redwood Summer in 1990. Direct action tactics often include trespass on lumber company property, blocking gates or logging roads. Activists have used various devices to immobilize themselves and make it difficult to remove them. After beginning with chains that were easily cut with bolt cutters, they switched to hardened bicycle locks, then metal pipes to protect their chained wrists.

For years deputies used portable grinders to cut through the pipes and remove them. Other tactics successfully used by officers included negotiation or simply waiting until the activists voluntarily unlocked themselves.

But in 1997, the officers decided in advance to try using pepper spray as their preferred method of dealing with the "lockdown" protests, though it had never been used in that way before.

Cowles said the pepper spray tactic failed, and that in each of the three episodes at least some of the activists endured the pain without releasing themselves, and officers still ended up using the grinders to cut them apart.


<hr>

Sorry, story's too wordy for the automatic snipper...
 
There was a survey done in the 1980 which found there was only between 1% and 2% of old growth trees left in the US, that was 23 years ago.
What I don't understand is with so few left, why not just cut them all down? :(

I respect the civil disobedience of the tree sitters, but I have to think there's a better way to protect these ancient trees. We all know Oxman's motivation($$$), and it surprises me to learn he'd sell out, somebody who claims to appreciate these massive beauties. Not that it matters, there are hundreds more just like him that would sell their soul for a few bucks.
What ever happen to spiking trees to protect them? Tom's suggestion not to use this type of lumber is a good one, it works with reducing the demand for ivory. How about buying lumber rights from the lumber company, can that be done?
 
I just have a hard time taking these people serious, I think doing this stuff is just a way to keep from growing up and joining the real world. I like the gratefuldead, and I bet that I've been at concerts with these people (activists). The same people who travel around basicaly living as homless people scrounging in dumpsters for food, selling pot, acid, etc... I also see them as PETA idiots who throw blood on people, burn test labs, free lab rats, etc....
No doubt, the redwoods are beautiful trees that should be protected, If I owned one I'd never sell it for the lumber. Why don't these people do somthing to raise money and buy these trees --it is all about money--, money combined with a little political arm twisting would keep the trees standing, if enough people give a sh!t. Why can't they sell it to the rest of the world?? I think it is from a lack of trying in any organized or thoughtful manner. --then again I guess I am part of the problem becasue I am not doing anything to help.
Greg
 
Greg wrote:

Why don't these people do somthing to raise
money and buy these trees --it is all about money--, money combined with a little
political arm twisting would keep the trees standing, if enough people give a sh!t.
Why can't they sell it to the rest of the world?? I think it is from a lack of trying in
any organized or thoughtful manner. --then again I guess I am part of the problem
becasue I am not doing anything to help.
Greg


There are organizations like The Nature Conservancy that buy up land to keep ir preserved. Consider donating money to them or joining in their work. There is also political activity. CA passed a Heritage Tree Act to preserve old growth.

Tom
 
Hey - it's just money.

Long before I was diagnosed with terminal lymphoma, I used to get payed for killing people. One dead armed insurgent however, never had the tactical effect a murdered couple of kids and their nursing mom did. We just did whatever worked best.
 
Save yer drama about civil disobedience and rising up against the man. This ain't the Boston Tea party. They have representation here unlike under British rule, when in 1691, the British started claiming all of the good old growth, prime for ship building as their own. It was marked with a Broad Arrow. We didn't have tree sitters then??

http://www.nhptv.org/kn/nh/nhlp5a.htm

The people then had no say what so ever and civil disobedience was all they had. These sitters are just people too lazy to work and contribute to society. Easier to complain and jump on every bandwagon rolling by. Peta, legalize hemp, you name it. Just another excuse to attemp to seem noble about being a looser.

All of these kids could get jobs and chip in to pay for the land and trees. Money is the motivation right?? That or they could actually vote. Money rules here and they have not been deprived in their pursuit of it, thus they have not been deprived in having a chance to purchase these trees. But oh yeah, it is easier to smoke pot all day and complain than pull people together and pool money.

It is sad to see these giants go but stop blaming mythical evil people, the MAN and the all mighty buck. Hoodwinked, bamboozled, you didn't land on Plymoth rock, .......yeah we know. We have only ourselves to blame for not saving these giants. Instead of buying a computer and logging on to Asite, you all could donate that money to save these trees. You could all sell your homes and trucks to have money to donate. Simply put, it wasn't that important to you. It is easier to complain and blame than take action.

Those who complain about the man will continue to. It is far easier than accepting responsibility.

I am willing to admit that I failed these giants, but that is not the rainbow I want to chase nor the hill I want to die on..........
 
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I can't say I like the idea of a tree protection act like in cali. To me, trees are private property unlike wildlife that is protected through similar acts.

Those of you who think it is a rosie great idea, need to put the water bong down for a while and go somewhere that has a tree protection act.

They do the opposite of what they are supposed to do. Private property owners want ther rights and flexibility which all equal $$$$.

This act restricts land use so to avoid that, you end up with land owners harvesting trees before they qualify as protected trees.

Trust me on this one, I have worked in places with tree protection ordinances. They are bad for trees.

Human nature flows like water, work with it, not against it. Rub the stream with money instead of trying to dam it up.
 
Like TreeCo said, if a guy can free climb up above you(man with ropes) you will never get your hands on him. Thats one bad a$$ climber.

There are hundreds of organizations that work at making this planet a better place, Fla. Native Plant Society, Look at Ducks Unlimited. These guys have NEVER cut me a check, but I feel good about helping.My way of making it to the real heaven.


They say everyone gets 15 min. of fame. Those cameras aimed at you will do wonders for your ego I hear.Me on film 125' up kickin a$$ sounds cool, it's not, Im not for sale.

Give the Hippies a pound of Shiskaberry X White Wida grown in CANADA.Worth 6,000$ tell them take it or leave it,you got 2 min.
More peaceful this way.Tree men are a tough bunch of guys,right?

Private property,got some and every man should have some. You get protective as they come,its mine,get the @#*# out. If it was my tree I would call Rocky and mikecross23 and this other fellow climber I know and go have some fun with the Hippies TOO. But I don't have to make that choice.

say cheese
 
i think large trees are a wonder of the world and there needs to be some protection.

They cannot move out of the way like animate life to get out of the way.

They are larger than the dinosaurs, i think that only the great barrier reef is a larger life form, but it is not all alive.

There are some large underground living 'mushrooms' they say might compete, but certainly not as sustained mass and size held upright on it's own.

Though each side may gather zealots, moderation aand fair balancing is probably best. Too much of this world has fallen from our bulldozing path already; someone needs to be applying the brakes pulling to balance. Of course i think that would be most leveraged from the opposite angle of pull for most immediate restriction upon movement; as anything else.

So, i don't stand with the OxMan here; but find it in kinda offkey, ill taste; singling him out here, leveraging him against standing for himself versus not wishing to post for whatever reasons as previously stated. Not much on violence; but the name is familiar here, and hope things aren't as bad as they sound.

:alien:
 
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I loved visiting the Redwoods when I toured Ca in 1982, the Lady Bird Johnson Grove being the one that sticks out in my mind 21 years later. But these trees are on private property, which the last time I checked, in this country at least, makes these tree sitters trespassers, no matter how noble their cause. Sorry it came down to that type of "removal" but short of starving the little buggers out (maybe a little more humane than pounding the crap out of them) what was the owner supposed to do? Unfortunately logging has a real bad rep, and given what I have seen first hand in BC, in particular in the Queen Charlotte Islands, I am not surprised that people react so strongly, however illegally.
 
Give me a break.

If I'm a big-monied interest, individual or corporate, I take a pile of money and go buy the laws I want. SBC here in Illinois went and muscled the bonehead puppylike legistature into instructing our regulatory agency to doubling rates and collapsing the competition.

Who's money did they use? Mine, and all the other ratepayers. Business as usual.

Spare me the mythologies of private ownership. We, as the great unwashed don't own anything--which you'll discover when you descend in the health care cost quicksand. Even the Big C, has only delayed the recognition that penniless and monied are just a moment of circumstance.

Buy me a law; buy me some public opinion; those're the instructions.

Yes sir, boss, Happy to, boss; the answers.


Doesn't the hypocracy stink a bit?


wulkowicz
 
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