Pellet Making?

[blades]

Hi Andy, guess we all are trying to put as much info up for you as possible, with out the marketing hype that the equipment mfg are tossing around. Most of the small pellet mills that I have seen advertised so far all seem to have their origin on the Asian continent. The quality of the steel used in the dies, weather it be a roller or plate style, and associated drive shafts have been on the less than adequate side. Like everything else they are constructed to a price point much like log splitters.
Question how is the mulch market in your area,or close by? Reason I ask is a former customer of mine, pallet business, switched from hauling waste to landfill, to grinding it up, coloring it and now sells it to a lot of retailers as mulch. They also were taking in waste from some of the other pallet shops last I heard. They were or still are only in the bulk market in my local metro area, and were making good money from something that was a serious expense. I know that they paid for the first shredder/grinder in the first year of operation strictly from the mulch sales.
Reason I brought this up is to make pellets you need to reduce the raw materials to a minimum of 6mm particles to feed the pellet press. This requires a hammer mill or tub grinder. By varying the screen size you control the size of the output. So in the beginning you could offset the cost of the mill with mulch sales. Just a thought. Chris

 

[pdqdl]

I have no interest in making anything other than the highest quality product, regardless if it's pellets, logs, lumber, firewood, or furniture. I stated earlier that I have already purchased a pole peeler so that the pellets would be free of bark and dirt. I intend to fire my dryer with the bark from the poles.
...

It all sounds workable, but I don't know how effective or expensive it is to operate a log peeler. Capturing the energy off of burning the bark sounds practical also.

How are you going to beat/match the price of the companies that are making pellets out of the sawdust from their sawmill operations?

 

[pdqdl]

I considered using some of the wood products for dryer-heat operations, but I felt that keeping a clean burning process going while using wet materials would be impractical. I am pretty certain that you would only get a little more energy out of the fresh, un-dried wood waste than you would need to dry it out by burning itself up.

Then there is the ecological problem of burning things, and all the ash disposal. Quite frankly, I gave up on the project, knowing that I did not have the resources to make it all happen.

I also considered chasing down investment capital, but I lacked the ambition to attempt becoming a corporate mogul with lots of investors to answer to.

I don't doubt that it could be done, but I don't have the deep pockets to pull it all off.

 

[pdqdl]

... So in the beginning you could offset the cost of the mill with mulch sales. Just a thought. Chris

Good thought! "Pine bark mulch" is a popular product for the landscape industry, and would definitely offset some of the disposal problems with the log peeler.

Mulch manufacturing is done by several pretty big companies in the KC area. Right now, I haul my logs to one of them just to get the free disposal. They grind all the logs into colored mulch and then sell it for about $30/ cu.yd.

They charge a hefty fee for wood chips or yard waste, though.

 

[redprospector]

Hi Andy, guess we all are trying to put as much info up for you as possible, with out the marketing hype that the equipment mfg are tossing around. Most of the small pellet mills that I have seen advertised so far all seem to have their origin on the Asian continent. The quality of the steel used in the dies, weather it be a roller or plate style, and associated drive shafts have been on the less than adequate side. Like everything else they are constructed to a price point much like log splitters.
Question how is the mulch market in your area,or close by? Reason I ask is a former customer of mine, pallet business, switched from hauling waste to landfill, to grinding it up, coloring it and now sells it to a lot of retailers as mulch. They also were taking in waste from some of the other pallet shops last I heard. They were or still are only in the bulk market in my local metro area, and were making good money from something that was a serious expense. I know that they paid for the first shredder/grinder in the first year of operation strictly from the mulch sales.
Reason I brought this up is to make pellets you need to reduce the raw materials to a minimum of 6mm particles to feed the pellet press. This requires a hammer mill or tub grinder. By varying the screen size you control the size of the output. So in the beginning you could offset the cost of the mill with mulch sales. Just a thought. Chris

Haha. Thanks Chris. I appreciate it, and that's the way I was taking it. I was using the down side comments to see if my own research was worth a flip.
Yeah, I've looked at the Chi-Com presses.....but not seriously. Right now I'm looking at a used 50 hp CPM press. Yeah, they're costly, but you don't always get what you pay for, but you'll always pay for what you get.
The mulch market around here seems to be all but non existant. I do intend to see if I can maybe stirr something up there. The only thing going in the area right now is 2 shavings plants. I'm not looking to go into competition, but to find a new nitch market.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

It all sounds workable, but I don't know how effective or expensive it is to operate a log peeler. Capturing the energy off of burning the bark sounds practical also.

How are you going to beat/match the price of the companies that are making pellets out of the sawdust from their sawmill operations?

You can make anything look good on paper, the proof will be in the pudding. I'll try to find the video I watched on youtube of the model of peeler I've got. It's pretty fast, and I can make vigas, and fence post, rail for fence, etc. if I want to.
I don't intend to beat/match the price of anyone right now. I intend to produce as high quality product as possible, determine my cost to do so, figure a fair profit and come up with a price. The upper hand I'll have is that the closest pellet plant in opperation is over 500 miles away, and they are using the same type materials I will be using (most all of the sawmills in this region have closed). Local freight won't be near as much as a 500 mile trip in a truck.
The plant that is currently supplying this area is pretty good size, but they can't supply the entire region. I'm hoping to fill that nitch.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

I considered using some of the wood products for dryer-heat operations, but I felt that keeping a clean burning process going while using wet materials would be impractical. I am pretty certain that you would only get a little more energy out of the fresh, un-dried wood waste than you would need to dry it out by burning itself up.

Then there is the ecological problem of burning things, and all the ash disposal. Quite frankly, I gave up on the project, knowing that I did not have the resources to make it all happen.

I also considered chasing down investment capital, but I lacked the ambition to attempt becoming a corporate mogul with lots of investors to answer to.

I don't doubt that it could be done, but I don't have the deep pockets to pull it all off.

It will be a trial and error effort to perfect using the bark for energy to dry the material. Some of the dryers I have looked at use some of the sawdust you have dried to fire the dryer. According to the manufacturer, about 15% of the raw material is used to dry the rest. If I can figure out how to cleanly, and efficiently burn the bark (waste) then I'm not giving up that 15% of hard fought for material. I actually think that if the mfg. claims 15% it will probably be closer to 20 or 25%, so I'll probably end up using some of the raw material to suppliment the bark.???
I'm doing some playing with a burn chamber. It is using the "catalitic converters" from wood stoves to get a complete burn. I think that with air injection, and the catalitic brick things, I don't think you'll see much more than heat vapors coming out of the stack (I hope).

I don't want partners or investors either. I don't have deep pockets, but I do have a big imagination. I aquire equipment a little at a time, and keep on keeping on until I can put it together.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

Ok, let's see if I did this right. If I did, this is the model of pole peeler I bought. I don't have the first infeed mechanism, but I do have the infeed for the peeler. The rest will have to be built.
Enjoy!

Andy

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uT0PBepkWWY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[leon]

Morbark drum debarker

Ok, let's see if I did this right. If I did, this is the model of pole peeler I bought. I don't have the first infeed mechanism, but I do have the infeed for the peeler. The rest will have to be built.
Enjoy!

Andy

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uT0PBepkWWY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hello Andy,

your going to love that Morbark log length Drum head debarker.

The drum debarker can be slowed down to debark more slowly to
have cleaner log.

The Morey family has been building a lot of logging machinery for a
long time with very high quality and engineering.

I have sent you a PM.

 

[pdqdl]

...
I'm doing some playing with a burn chamber. It is using the "catalitic converters" from wood stoves to get a complete burn. I think that with air injection, and the catalitic brick things, I don't think you'll see much more than heat vapors coming out of the stack (I hope)....
Andy

My mother had a wood stove with a catalytic converter. While I can't speak for all of them, hers had a real problem with low temperature smoke from wet unseasoned wood. I don't imagine that bark would turn out much different. Expensive and short-lived, that woodstove is history.

The best way to get rid of smoke is with high combustion temperatures in the presence of adequate oxygen. Work out some sort of a combustion chamber that retains the heat and has a really hot flue that only captures the heat after all the burning has occurred.

 

[pdqdl]

BTW: seriously cool machine that debarker. I presume that it has carbide cutters and a wide variety of log sizes that it can handle?

 

[Justsaws]

I you have the space, time and access to materials, bark mixed compost can be a product that sells much higher than just mulch to the right people. Might be risky for you as there would be the intial wait to "season" a batch but flower nuts will pay. Ask around and see if there are any "flower" clubs, see what hte members are looking for. I make my own because I do not want to pay.

 

[redprospector]

BTW: seriously cool machine that debarker. I presume that it has carbide cutters and a wide variety of log sizes that it can handle?

It actually has HSS cutters, but they are supposed to hold up pretty well. It can take up to 12" diameter, and down to 3" diameter. Which covers the majority of what I get. With the infeed table I've got it will do a 25' pole.
Who know's, post & pole buisness may be as good as anything else.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

My mother had a wood stove with a catalytic converter. While I can't speak for all of them, hers had a real problem with low temperature smoke from wet unseasoned wood. I don't imagine that bark would turn out much different. Expensive and short-lived, that woodstove is history.

The best way to get rid of smoke is with high combustion temperatures in the presence of adequate oxygen. Work out some sort of a combustion chamber that retains the heat and has a really hot flue that only captures the heat after all the burning has occurred.

I agree, the catalytic bricks don't take a slow wet burn well, and the best way to get rid of smoke is with high heat & oxygen. I intend to dry the bark, it will also be sent through a hammer mill to get consistent size particals for better heat control. Who knows, it may turn out better to pelletize the bark for a more consistant burn, that would make a lot of ash though.
If it will quit raining, I need to go cut some more trees to fund this little venture.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

I you have the space, time and access to materials, bark mixed compost can be a product that sells much higher than just mulch to the right people. Might be risky for you as there would be the intial wait to "season" a batch but flower nuts will pay. Ask around and see if there are any "flower" clubs, see what hte members are looking for. I make my own because I do not want to pay.

That's something to consider, but I think compost would be a lot of extra labor turning it & such. Don't know, I'll have to look into it.

Thanks,
Andy

 

[half]

pallet making

really the best source of heat is the old woodburner, the consumer magazine here in N,Z backs this up and you dont have to worry about power outages. electric or gas and I can cook on mine in the warm. And it heats 3 times, once cutting and splitting. two stacking and the final time burning. stacked wood is money in the bank and it keeps and is easy to get at any time ,not like a manufactured fuel like pellets

 

[blades]

Primary advantages of compressed biomass fuel is de-bugging & long term storage. the bricks or logs are likely the best of compressed products in mind as can be used in wood stoves, btu is comparable to bulk splits, requires no additional electric controls. Stove cost, due to fuel requirements, comes out about the same. 128 cubic feet of bio brick/log would likely contain more btu's than a cord of stacked splits due to density. Currently in my local, top of the heap hardwood/cord vs equivalent bio is a wash cost wise if purchasing ready to burn cord of wood ( ya i know not many if any are ever ready to burn) or pellets by the pallet. I have not priced bio log/brick pallet purchase price vs quantity per pallet.

 

[pdqdl]

I agree, the catalytic bricks don't take a slow wet burn well, and the best way to get rid of smoke is with high heat & oxygen. I intend to dry the bark, it will also be sent through a hammer mill to get consistent size particals for better heat control. Who knows, it may turn out better to pelletize the bark for a more consistant burn, that would make a lot of ash though.
If it will quit raining, I need to go cut some more trees to fund this little venture.

Andy

When I was checking into the pellet process, the German equipment that I was looking at did not seem to care about the moisture content. It was squeezing the wood chips so hard that it was physically removing most of the water. I would have needed a process to handle the water effluent that came from the pellet mill. A tremendous amount of heat was generated, and the pellets were somewhat self-drying.

By crushing them so hard, the water was physically squeezed out rather than cooked out or evaporated. I presumed that this was a clever way to reduce drying time and heating expense.

If it didn't damage the machines to pelletize a less clean raw material, I'm sure that you could burn the bark pellets fairly efficiently.

 

[blades]

You still have to watch the moisture content of raw material, too much (even after the squeeze and heat generated) and the extruded material will just fall apart during the cool off time. The generated heat is a function of the material and die plates friction, here again the moisture content of the raw material comes into play as too high will cool the dies significantly. The die plates have to be up around 160 degs before it starts working correctly ( i might be off some on the temp -been awhile)

 

[pdqdl]

Say Blades; those are some top notch considerations.

It all adds up to a simple observation: making pellets is a rather complex process, and any inconsistency in the raw materials is going to strongly influence product quality, productivity, and profitability.