Picking a stove and determining the need for a flue liner

[trukn2004]

Hello all, I have asked this question on H-th.com and got a lot of good replies about the stoves. I also was wondering about my flue: it is 8x12 masonry tile, brand new. How critical is a liner at this point? I really don't want to spend the money on one unless it is absolutely necessary.

Anyway, below is the thread and some pictures.

So i know this is talked to death, but I am trying to get some insight. Currently I am building my new home. Its 2700 sq ft, 2x6 constrcution, well insluated, heating system is Forced Hot Air with radiant in the garage. We have plans for a free-standing wood stove and have built a two-flue masonry chimney. (second flue goes to basement for possible extra stove)
Below are plans and some shots of the hearth.
Overall house

First floor

Second Floor

Hearth




So right now, the pad is completed. I will need a stove that is rear exit for obvious reasons, And the wife had chosen the Jotul for its looks and performance. (her mother has one). Ive shown her the woodstock Ideal steel and she likes it as well. I guess my question is which stove would you pick and why? I've ran the Jotul at her moms house before and I found it seemed to chew through wood. I dont know if it was operator error, or possibly I was expecting something different, but It seemed like a overnight burn would be tough. Of course, that was also in a 1800's drafty farmhouse.

 

[boxygen]

An 1800's house is going to chew through wood no matter what. You don't need a liner, that's what the flue tile is for. Looks like you are ready to burn to me. Good move on the basement hookup and nice looking woodstove surround.

 

[nathon918]

An 1800's house is going to chew through wood no matter what. You don't need a liner, that's what the flue tile is for. Looks like you are ready to burn to me. Good move on the basement hookup and nice looking woodstove surround.

while you "can" burn it the way it is...it may be awfully pain full just to get it drafting, while starting a fire....being an "exterior" chimney, and a huge 2 flue at that, its going to be a ***** to get warm enough to get a draft going...add on top of that, its a new house, likely very tight, making drafting even harder.
boilers don't even use flues that big...id put a liner in it!

 

[boxygen]

Good points. I don't see an provision for makeup air either, which many modern stoves have provisions for a direct hookup. I didn't pay much attention to the external chimney before, but you are right. An exterior chimney is less than ideal. Even if it draws well, It will be a creosote factory because it will never get very warm. Cleaning that chimney looks like it will be a ***** too. Maybe a liner would be a good investment.

 

[brenndatomu]

I'd line it. Why take the risk that it works, but only so-so. That will make you hate your stove in short order, and it's not even the stoves fault. All stoves, cheap or top of the line, are "powered" by the chimney, do it once, do it right, be done wit it

Edit: Another good reason to line (with insulation if there's room) is peace of mind, if you ever have a chimney fire you won't have to worry about the house, or even the chimney, other than worst case scenario, a new liner.
Oh, and nice place!

 

[wireedm]

If you plan on burning slow, put in an insulated liner. The new long burning stoves allow very little draft up the chimney. If the flu doesn't stay warm, you'll lose your draft. You've put too much time and work into the wood to burn it hotter just to keep a draft going.

 

[Ronaldo]

I'd have to agree with the need for a liner.

 

[Streblerm]

You should look at stoves and see what they recommend. My stove recommends no smaller than 6" round and no larger than an 8x8 square. Not all stoves are the same.

I don't see the need for a liner just for the sake of having one, but if the stove is designed to run on a smaller flue then draft may be an issue with what you have.

 

[nathon918]

You should look at stoves and see what they recommend. My stove recommends no smaller than 6" round and no larger than an 8x8 square. Not all stoves are the same.

I don't see the need for a liner just for the sake of having one, but if the stove is designed to run on a smaller flue then draft may be an issue with what you have.

I bet you'd be awfully hard pressed to find any stove that had an 8x12 flue within the recommended size...most wood boilers/furnaces only use a 8-10" round...
8x 12 =96 sq. in
8x8 = 64 sq. in
10" round= 78.5 sq. in
8" round = 50.3 sq. in
6" round= 28.3 sq. in

his 8x12 flue is 200-340% larger than most stove outlets out there today (6"-8")

 

[brenndatomu]

Yeah, good idea to see what the stove manual specs out for a chimney.
8" x 12" is 96 sq inches, a 6" round flue is ~28", a modern stove with a 6" flue connector will draft very poorly on 8" x 12" masonry chimney, especially since it is on the outside of the house (not an internal chimney)

Edit: I see nathon beat me to it...

 

[trukn2004]

Thank you guys for the info! from the sounds of it, a liner will be needed. In hindsight I really should have paid more attention while the chimney was being constructed, but I had explained my plans to the mason and he is a wood burner so I thought he would set me up well. I am really at a loss how to get the liner in, and sweeping this chimney will be a bastard. More then likely, I will leave it to a professional for initial hookup and lining.

 

[brenndatomu]

I am really at a loss how to get the liner in, and sweeping this chimney will be a bastard.

Liner install is really pretty easy, look it up on You-tube, there are plenty of examples. If you have a clean-out door then you can just pop the cap off the bottom off the tee and clean like normal. My clean-out door is clear at the bottom of the chimney base so I had the liner company mod my tee so I could put an extension on it to be able to access the "tee cap" which is now actually on the bottom of the liner extension. Picture a drip leg on a gas supply line, kinda the same arrangement.