Reducing Codominant Pine

[treeseer]

Pinus taeda, loblolly pine leans over garage/entrance to house and electric line. pic #1, Split is ~2m long with large pitch tubes from southern pine beetle activity at bottom of split, on both sides. Compare the difference between this copious reaction by the tree to the insects, and the lack of pitch in that weak infested pine Ljack showed us a few weeks ago (this one's for you C, but get to bed--growing boys need their rest!).


Elderly client has had many trees taken down over the years due to storms (and risk assessment by others) and prefers to keep this one if it can be brought to a reasonable level of risk. I already did the work but will stop here to get opinions. The Burl thread is getting some educational responses that have sharpened my thinking on "collars" and are fun to read, so lurkers please jump in. It's safe here; you have nothing to lose but a little time, and the knowledge of others to gain! :angel:

(pic is large but will be resized below.) My rent is paid and my "crew" has enough work. How should I manage this tree?

 

[Ekka]

Better & brighter pic embedded

I'd go with the bolt and dynamic cable. The sap is a good sign. Dynamic cable as a back up just in case it fails. Keep up good health and crack a beer!

 

[timberbeast]

Treeseer,

What Ekka said. The tree looks healthy. Remember that promoting vigor is the best way to maintain the tree's natural defences.

The pitch is a good sign that the tree is forcing the beetles out.

A dying top is a sign that the tree has been ringed by the beetles. I do not believe this is the case.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Lumberjack]

I said bracing and dynamic, making some assumptions.

The only reservation I have is dynamic cables are not made for constant loads, or when failure has already occured, so if you have to reduce weight then it might not be the best.

This stem hasnt failed but using the cable incase it fails is backwards thinking IMO. Use the cable to offer leveraged support (sounding like spidy) on the crotch that has been re-enforced with the bracing. Do you have an overview of the whole tree? I think tip reduction would be bad, specially in a pine where there is so much more invested in the canopy.

I did a TD on a tree similar to that, split, included bark, the works a while back over a garage and driveway and a power line. I got up to the top and could just push the tops apart without any real effort, quite scary! I tied them together while I rigged out the tree.

I have been meaning to ask you, is the reason pines dont sprout is the lack of epicomic buds? (been doing some reading )

 

[R Schra]

I will hold my vote till i have seen a pic of the whole tree and canopy. As i see it;

That crotch is reacting to the the canopy above. Dynamic cabling will keep that reaction in stand. With bolting the crotch you fix the movement in that place and 'grinding' between the stems will stop. That 'grinding' and sap thats commin out is one way to prevent attack by bugs and fungus. If the crotch isnt split open i wouldnt put in bolts and static cabling. Ill just put in a dynamic cabling and keep a bolted fix as back up when signs come up that the crotch is opening. (after storms or so)

This stem hasnt failed but using the cable incase it fails is backwards thinking IMO

Its not ONLY about saving the canopy its also to prevent damage. So using cabling can preserve a canopy and reduces damage to property when failure happens.

Ronald

 

[treeseer]

That crotch is reacting to the the canopy above.

True. Therefore, reducing the canopy lessens the strain on the defect, in this case significantly. I know everyone will agree with that! Sorry for lack of "before" pic, thought I had one. pic #1 is tree after reduction, pic #2 is making reduction cuts with telescoping polesaw.

"is the reason pines dont sprout is the lack of epicomic buds?" Pines DO sprout, just less; many "epicormic" but strong shoots, upward-growing laterals from dormant buds released due to strain caused by heavy ends sagging over garage, made excellent natural targets for reduction cuts. Lack of side-pockets in jeans left camera on ground; never again! Baggy cargo pants are the best for climbing.

Ronald, the sap oozing is totally from bug drilling; I agree it's a good sign and I did not treat for Dendroctonus frontalis in this tree.

"dynamic cables are not made for constant loads"
I agree so if I was to cable this tree it'd be steel. But the reduction took so much strain off the defect I reinforced only with 4x arbortie in 2 locations; theoretically 900# x 8 = 7200# for backup.

pic #3 shows the size of most of my cuts; small-diameter thinning and reduction. Low % of photosynthetic area lost, high % of strain gone thanks to shortening these branches.
Thanks Ekka et al for your excellent brightening and resizing and line-drawing work.

I hate to open the Pandora's Box of reduction again without better illustration, but here we are. Thanks for the note about vigor; I already mulched but will fluff up and inoculate and fertilize the root system too. Most of my clients get (paid) annual monitoring, key for defects in high-target areas like this. This is an easy service to sell, but maybe that comment belongs in the "free estimate" thread.

 

[bushman]

I Think the tree would be ok with a thin to reduce some weight and placing bracing rod and peventive beetle spray.With out seeing the tree hard to tell.How big is this pine?

 

[Ax-man]

Definately brace and cable , that is a bad narrow attachment between those co doms, White Pine is a very weak brittle wood when compareed it to other pines or evergreens.

Larry

 

[JeffE]

That's a loblolly, Ax-man.

The pitch mass looks like it might be from pitch moth rather than SPB, and that would be a typical M.O.; pitch moths are attracted to wounds, galls, splits, etc., and aren't as restricted to stressed trees. Also not as damaging in terms of vectoring vascular pathogens, although they can reduce wood strength.

I took the unpopular route of voting for removal. Maybe I'm a little gun-shy after the hurricanes, but I don't think that any cabling/bracing is going to stop an included codom like that from splitting at some point, and you did say that there are targets in the fall path. Not worth the risk for a nothing-special tree, and it would just give a false sense of security.

 

[Ekka]

Just fixing your pics

Looks good, as long as you didn't drop crotch those 2 leaders I'm happy.

 

[Ax-man]

Sorry for the wrong ID, drrr, no Loblolly here,
Curious, are they related, 5 needles to a bundle sheath.

Guy did start the thread right off the bat saying it was a Loblloy, I got distracted by the pictures especially the one of Guy in the tree, good to put a face behind all those posts he has made, somehow he looks just like I thought he would. Are we ever going to be able to wean him off that taut line hitch. ( could not resist that little zinger )

Larry

 

[R Schra]

Treeseer,

Did you place a cabling/sling/rope between the two leaders before you were doing the trimming? I usually do when a leader or codominant branch has such crotches.

Ronald

 

[Lumberjack]

I woulda tied it together to trim it as well.

I think bracing and a dynamic cable placed a little below where your standing, its hard to make out where exactly you are in the overview picture. I installed a cobra system week before last in a pine, except it didnt have included bark, and I didnt do any reductions.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I think bracing and a dynamic cable placed a little below where your standing, its hard to make out where exactly you are in the overview picture.

The standard is 2/3s of the way from the bad crotch to the tree top. He's standing about half way, so I'd disagree with your recommendation. Or did you have a reason for going below the standard?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I guess Carl doesn't want to play.
Guy, I just don't see what the Crown reduction did to help this tree. I can see bracing. I can see cabling, dynamic or steel. I can even see leaving it alone, but hacking away trying to make it conform to your idea of a symmetrical tree? Nope.
I would, however, recommend a decapitation if you ever broke your ankle, you know, just to lighten the load.

 

[Lumberjack]

The standard is 2/3s of the way from the bad crotch to the tree top. He's standing about half way, so I'd disagree with your recommendation. Or did you have a reason for going below the standard?

Sure I will play Mike, just been busy.

Aren't the red arrows in the same place in the tree?

 

[treeseer]

I guess Carl doesn't want to play.

carl's red lines are accurate; I was ~2/3 from split to tip.

I just don't see what the Crown reduction did to help this tree. ...I can even see leaving it alone,

With that kind of defect and that kind of target, that would be the height of arboricultural irresponsibility. Ar eyou sure you meat to say that?

but hacking away trying to make it conform to your idea of a symmetrical tree?

Every cut was made for a single reason--lessening risk. Aesthetics is seldom a factor; physics and safety drive the process. Increased symmetry can look better when it is a safer, more stable form, but many asymmetric trees are very stable, so with them there is nothing to change.

Unless it's a standalone specimen, every tree functions as a part of a grove and is evaluated in that light. This pine looked better imo when it had the graceful sweeping branches over the wires and house. But even without the split, I would have shortened them (tho not that many or that much), to decrease risk of limb breakage from ice and storms.

This tree is still fairly young, and will send new growth from all the growing tips, most of which are now pointing more up and to the other sides than out over the targets. Longterm it will again grow toward the light, and its beauty will increase a lot but the risk will increase only a little.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

In that area with the potential for high winds in the region, I would try to get a C&B system in there.

All Pinus with that look have a high failure rate, IM(ns)HO

 

[arboromega]

lets not ignore the southern pine beetle problem - do that and all your pruning cabeling and bracing is for naught. bushman suggested a spray and i agree. for those of you who do live amongst the southern pine beetle it is an epidemic. the spb will kill its host quickly sending pherremone attractants to all their buddies, then move on to healthy trees and kill them. the spb can decimate entire trackts of pinus taeda. many times removal is the primary option, but in the case of trying to save the tree...
i would suggest some bifenthrin, primarilty the product onyx which i have good results with and even put to the test on a lobloyy in my own yard. also some deep root watering will help to mitigate the beetle damage. dont ignore this treeseer.

 

[treeseer]

lets not ignore the southern pine beetle problem -... it is an epidemic. ...in the case of trying to save the tree...
i would suggest some bifenthrin, primarilty the product onyx...also some deep root watering will help to mitigate the beetle damage. dont ignore this treeseer.

Thanks omega, it was my opinion and I think others' too that the profuse pitching was a sign that the invasion was likely repelled. However, it's been ~9 yrs since the spb population hit epidemic levels, and I remember the last one--very ugly as you say. nOthing to fool with.

My faith in Onyx is poor due to its use on a big oak for borers. Guys in a yellow truck sprayed an infestation in nov and feb. I was called to the tree in May and borers were still quite active. I dug away the dead tissue, hit it with a garden hose, and am going back to treat the active spots. Not sure I'll use onyx on it again; what esle is good?