side arm vs plate exchanger

[catmanzr440]

Can't decide witch way to go on the water heater I'm leaning to the plate , looks like a simpler install. I have a 10 plate ready will that be big enough, Just lookin for some opinion on the matter

 

[boyland]

should be fine to use

 

[blackdogon57]

I would try what you have. Storage tank size is important as well. I started with 40 gallon and switched to 60. Have virtually unlimited hot water now and breaker on water tank is shut off.

 

[catmanzr440]

anyone have any pics of there plate to water heater setups.

 

[John D]

Ive heard that if your on untreated well water(hard water),a plate exchanger will plug up pretty quickly.....so if thats the case,maybe a sidearm would be better.

 

[catmanzr440]

ya its well water, so maybe be i am back to the arm plan b.

 

[LakeO]

Question, if the plate or side arm exchager are on demand only and you use your hot water heater tank as storage, how does it maintain the water temp? For example, you don't use any hot water for 12 hrs and the water in the tank cools down.

 

[oneoldbanjo]

Question, if the plate or side arm exchager are on demand only and you use your hot water heater tank as storage, how does it maintain the water temp? For example, you don't use any hot water for 12 hrs and the water in the tank cools down.

I have both a plate exchanger and a sidearm. I could not figure out which one to use.....so I installed both!

I do have a valve on the sidearm and if I close it to stop the thermosiphon and stop it from heating. I have found that if we shut off the sidearm the plate exchanger will keep us in plenty of hot water, and the normal use will allow the plate exchanger to keep the water warm continually. If we go away for about 3 days without turning the sidearm on - we wil return to water that is luke warm.

Sidearm vs. Plate - Each one does a job. The plate exchanger makes the water hot as it enters the water heater and will keep up with an unlimited demand for hot water - the sidearm keeps the water warm once it is inside but has a limited heating capacity. The plate exchanger won't heat the water once it is inside the tank, and the sidearm is not efficient enough to keep up with demand if you use much water (several people taking showers).

 

[John D]

I want to do a plate exchanger,but i have well water.If I could use one im sure i could drop my owbs temp 10 degrees easily saving me wood.

 

[deutzman]

I have both a plate exchanger and a sidearm. I could not figure out which one to use.....so I installed both!

I do have a valve on the sidearm and if I close it to stop the thermosiphon and stop it from heating. I have found that if we shut off the sidearm the plate exchanger will keep us in plenty of hot water, and the normal use will allow the plate exchanger to keep the water warm continually. If we go away for about 3 days without turning the sidearm on - we wil return to water that is luke warm.

Sidearm vs. Plate - Each one does a job. The plate exchanger makes the water hot as it enters the water heater and will keep up with an unlimited demand for hot water - the sidearm keeps the water warm once it is inside but has a limited heating capacity. The plate exchanger won't heat the water once it is inside the tank, and the sidearm is not efficient enough to keep up with demand if you use much water (several people taking showers).

If sized proper would the plate exchanger work without the tank? Like a tankless hot water heater?

I have a tankless LP gas water heater and it works great. I'd just like to stop my usage of LP even though it's small now.

 

[oneoldbanjo]

If sized proper would the plate exchanger work without the tank? Like a tankless hot water heater?

I am sure that it would work without a tank. The water is very hot and can be very near the temperature from your OWB - so a mixing valve may be advisable.

 

[varna]

I have a 10 plate HX with 6 people in the home (4 females) who love to take long showers. Two dish washers and two clothes washers. I have straight well water. So far no problems at all. I installed the HX just down stream from my hot water heater in my hot water line. The water in my tank is not heated when I am running the OWB. I have hot water on demand......all day long....never have run out. YES you do need to install a mixing valve as not to get too hot of water. When my OWB is not burning, I just fire up the water heater and use as normal. I know "heat" doesn't care which way is goes, but I have seen no difference in my propane useage or hot water at all going through the HX when using the water heater. I had planned on installing a "bypass" to the exchanger but see no need to do that.

 

[oneoldbanjo]

When my OWB is not burning, I just fire up the water heater and use as normal. I know "heat" doesn't care which way is goes, but I have seen no difference in my propane useage or hot water at all going through the HX when using the water heater. I had planned on installing a "bypass" to the exchanger but see no need to do that.

There is no need to install a bypass for a plate exchanger. When your OWB is turned off (including the circulating pump)there not any water flow from the OWB - so there is no heat exchange taking place. The domestic supply water is still passing through the plate exchanger - but there is not any OWB water passing through.

 

[deutzman]

Thanks varna & oneoldbanjo. That's some great information for me. I live in a house built in 1917. No basement and went tankless LP so I could remove the tank type from the house. My tankless LP is mounted on the outside of the house. The plate exchanger is what I need now. I just started the CB here for the first time a few weeks back. I wanted to make sure I got the house heating nailed down before adding anything else to it. So it looks like goodbye LP bill for good now.
Thanks again.

 

[Iska3]

When I installed my OWB, I was going to make a large Side Arm for my Hot Water because I only have a 30 gal HW Tank with a Super Heater. I talked to the people at freeheat4you on ebay and their people told me to forget the side arm and go direct with a 10 plate exchanger and I will never run out of Hot Water.

Knowing that I have well water and a water softener, I felt this would be an option. In doing so I made sure I had a bi-pass for the hot water tank and the OWB along with valves and unions so I can remove the 10 plate and clean it if need be.

My other option was to purchase a second hot water tank for extra storage and go with a side are. I went with the 10 plate exchanger and connected it direct to my water line. You can see in the pictures that I also have several bi-passes, valves, Y strainers and unions. This was an added cost up front but I feel it will be well worth it in the long run.

CAUTION!! With this type of set up you should have a mixing valve on your main line going to the house or your hot water will be too hot if you have little kids in the house. There is only my wife and I in the house so we know to watch and only turn on a little of the hot at the sink or tub. Because the water is so hot, my might have problems with your appliances so keep thin in mind.

We turn off the LP for the hot water tank and use the tank to take the chill off of the well water before going in to the exchanger. My heat loss to the main line is about 5 to 8 degrees if we run the hot water for a long period and most of that time the furnace fan is not going so we do not notice the heat loss. I actually think a person could connect a 10 plate exchanger to the return line of your OWB and still have more than enough hot water when connected direct.

Because I have no or very little heat loss from the OWB to the house, I also have a Wireless BBQ Thermometer Transmitter connected to the main line. I have the receiver upstairs and I always know the heat of my OWB. The receiver also has a High Heat Alarm so I’ll know in advance if my OWB gets too hot.

So far this system works for us. I haven’t had any problems and all the hot water that we will ever need.
See Links below...

 

[1harlowr]

I don't use side arm or a plate HX

I have two 80 gal LP hot water tanks. These are now more or less just storage tanks for the hot water coming from the OWB goes directly into the tanks. I probably should have bypassed one of the tanks. I didn't because the master bath and laundry is on the opposite side of the house from the kitchen and two other baths.
I leave the LP on for the tanks. They run only a time or two a day if enough hot water isn't used just to keep the temp up on the water. If the LP is shut off, the water is always still warm but not hot.
The tanks are only 4-5 years old. When they go bad I will replace with a single tank or just go to smaller tanks.

 

[oneoldbanjo]

I have two 80 gal LP hot water tanks. These are now more or less just storage tanks for the hot water coming from the OWB goes directly into the tanks.

I assume you meant to say the hot water from the Plate Exchanger goes directly into the water tanks?

I agree that you don't need to store 160 gallons of hot water - the plate exchanger makes the water hot as it passes through and there is really no need for storage. The OWB water functions as the storage medium for the heat and the heat is transferred to your domestic water when the water flows through the plate exchanger.

 

[1harlowr]

I assume you meant to say the hot water from the Plate Exchanger goes directly into the water tanks?

No there isn't a plate HX or a side arm. My OWB is a Hardy which can utilize seperate water lines for heat and domestic hot water. Point I was making was to becareful of the size of tank being used to store the hot water.

 

[Laird]

My HX do foul up after awhile as my well water is very hard. I bought a second one installed it with unions so that I could easily swap them out when flow becomes affected. I soak the insides with vinegar for a couple weeks changing it every day and it is ready to swap out again. So far I have only had to do this once a year.

 

[oneoldbanjo]

No there isn't a plate HX or a side arm. My OWB is a Hardy which can utilize seperate water lines for heat and domestic hot water. Point I was making was to becareful of the size of tank being used to store the hot water.

I was not aware that Hardy had this feature.....sorry for my confusion.