Small firewood buisness

[leon]

wood etc.

Ok, would it be fair to look at his situation slightly differently:

He's already doing 50 cords/year @ $125/cord; woodlot is 15 miles from his work yard (stated in another thread).

Seems like the consensus here is very strong he isn't going to achieve 200 cords/year given his equipment and time constraints. And I don't think he has the resources to go big with processors, fairly new tractors, hiring labor, etc.

What are the biggest bangs for the buck that would help him at least improve that production rate? i.e. get the most extra wood for the least extra dollars.

I'm guessing a 440 class saw.

After other cash expenses to cut and deliver a cord, I'm figuring at used saw prices, 5 to 6 more cords will pay for it. How much faster would the 440 be? 20%? 40%? I've never timed my 024 v. 360 when cutting...but I know when I switch to the 360 I'm always happy with the speed

But I'm open to stuff like looking for used production quality splitter or larger truck / trailer.

buying the smallest motorised chomper wil be the fastest way to do this.

 

[Dalmatian90]

buying the smallest motorised chomper wil be the fastest way to do this.

And how would he get the logs to the chomper with his current equipment?

 

[blackdogon57]

If you want to do 200 cord you will need help. Hire a guy with a pro saw who knows how to use it and you might get that kind of production.

Very few guys who run OWB's buy their wood. I know there are quite a few OWBS around here and in 5 years I have delivered 1 cord to an OWB owner.

Asssuming you do manage to produce 200 cords you also need to think about the time and work involved in delivering the wood. Even if your trailer is a dumper you are still looking a a few hundred hours to deliver that much wood.

 

[leon]

firewood

And how would he get the logs to the chomper with his current equipment?

All of the chomper models have a hydraulic winch as standard equipment with wire rope cable which has a hook and swivel attached to the end of the wire rope and the winch has a roller fairlead from what I remember.

I want the man to suceed and not kill himself bucking logs when he does not have to by setting the larger logs aside; he can use the winch to do that to with a couple of sheave blocks and another piece of wire rope with swivel hooks and an old car hood if he needs one.

 

[STLfirewood]

Ok, would it be fair to look at his situation slightly differently:

He's already doing 50 cords/year @ $125/cord; woodlot is 15 miles from his work yard (stated in another thread).

Seems like the consensus here is very strong he isn't going to achieve 200 cords/year given his equipment and time constraints. And I don't think he has the resources to go big with processors, fairly new tractors, hiring labor, etc.

What are the biggest bangs for the buck that would help him at least improve that production rate? i.e. get the most extra wood for the least extra dollars.

QUOTE]

Biggest bang for his buck is to quit if that is all he can get for firewood.

 

[leon]

firewood

Ok, would it be fair to look at his situation slightly differently:

He's already doing 50 cords/year @ $125/cord; woodlot is 15 miles from his work yard (stated in another thread).

Seems like the consensus here is very strong he isn't going to achieve 200 cords/year given his equipment and time constraints. And I don't think he has the resources to go big with processors, fairly new tractors, hiring labor, etc.

What are the biggest bangs for the buck that would help him at least improve that production rate? i.e. get the most extra wood for the least extra dollars.

QUOTE]

Biggest bang for his buck is to quit if that is all he can get for firewood.

The smallest motorised manual operated chomper is towable with his truck and he can buy a small paddle grain conveyor to load the sheared firewood right on the worksite landing where he drops the logs and into his trailer from the chute of the chomper to the grain conveyor and then to the trailer.




View attachment 168746View attachment 168747.

 

[freemind]

I do occational wood sales.

For a one man operation to compete with full time sellers, in this situation, ain't gonna happen.

Anyone who works a full time job, does not have alot of pro equipment, and asks to do 200 cords, is setting themselves up for a serious disappointment. I belive even shooting for double (100 cords) is ALOT.

I know that if I wanted to sell 50 cords a year, being a one man band, I would need more equipment than I have, and more than the OP has.

On my list of necessary equipment would be:
A dump truck
A skid steer
A conveyor
A faster spiltter
SEVERAL saws (in case of breakdowns)
And all kinds of spare tires, and parts.

Time is money, and when your equipment is broke down, you ain't making money. One man even with all the nesessary equipment, still gets sick and hurt. The OP'er is setting his hopes and expectations too high.

AND is your supply of wood infinate? 200 cords a years is alot of wood. How many years can you keep pulling that many cords from a stand of trees before it is gone? What then? How far is the next patch of woods going to be? Will you have to pay for your supply then?


Myself, I would think with THAT kind of production, you would need to be buying loads of logs.

 

[ponyexpress976]

Make lots of friends in the local tree services...the ones that dont already sell firewood. Offer to help them any way you can and they will reciprocate. I have a few contacts that will load me up with all I can take as long as I come and get it. Might be some oddball lengths but its less handling/cutting for you. Also, sounds like you have the space so offer them a place to dump their chips if they supply you with other useable stuff. Get as many pallets as you can and pile it on those in windrows. I "walk" my splitter down a row of rounds and end up with a round of splits Lets face it, unless you are going to invest a LOT of $, cutting down handling is the best way to grow.

 

[TXTreeSurgeon]

The bottleneck in you operation is your saws. Get a MS441 and you will be able to cut up a tree 2X-3X as fast, especially if the tree is over 16" diameter. If you spend the same amount of time that it took you to produce 50 cords, the faster saw alone will probably net you an extra 20 cords or so in production. That won't get you anywhere near 200 cords, but the better saw will make you a lot of extra money. I'd suggest a 25" bar as that will easily cut most trees you will run into and still be well within the power limitations of that saw. You might also consider buying an 8 pin rim sprocket and a 20" bar for faster cuts on smaller trees. Go out with 3-4 sharp chains so that you can keep working while in the field and spend the time sharpening at home on the work bench. A faster splitter would also help, but you will probably get more bang for your buck from the faster saw, and you REALLY need a pro saw for that amount of cutting.

 

[michigancountry]

Txtree

Thanks for the advice at least someone believes that I can and hopefully will accomplish what I want. Now I have another question for you, how can I dry my wood faster?

 

[jeeptj19992001]

Thanks for the advice at least someone believes that I can and hopefully will accomplish what I want. Now I have another question for you, how can I dry my wood faster?

kiln, that should run you 10 - 20 k for a small one.

mother nature is the other way.

 

[STLfirewood]

kiln, that should run you 10 - 20 k for a small one.

mother nature is the other way.

That's not counting the boiler to go with it. A new full up and running kiln will be 30-40k or more.

Scott

 

[woodguy105]

you started the business last year and you are asking questions now? kinda of bass akwards

At least he's asking and looking to increase production. no need to be an a$$ in your response.

 

[jeeptj19992001]

At least he's asking and looking to increase production. no need to be an a$$ in your response.

yes there is, now ####
thanks
and have a great day

 

[woodguy105]

yes there is, now ####
thanks
and have a great day

Must be a tough way to go through life, feeling like you need to be an A$$.

I did have a great day! Thanks!!

 

[michigancountry]

Now when you say mother nature, I was told if you put a tarp over your stacks and leave the ends open and put a box fan on one end and run it during the hot days that it will turn a 6 month drying process into a 6 week process. I am asking questions because I want to succeed not fail. Thanks again for all the help everyone everything and all tips you know is very helpful

 

[freemind]

I don't think it is that people don't belive in you. What your asking to do, with what you have to work with, isn't going to work.

You are wanting to go from a pretty good size side business, to a commercial business. But it seems you are not wanting to completely commit to the amount of labor/investment it will take.

Now, lets say that you do invest alot of money in your equipment. What happens if you too fall "victim" to what most guys have across the country? You know, pros with a Paulin that are selling "seasoned cords" in the back of the s-10's that are dripping sap.

You are wanting to grow 400% THAT is a mighty high expectation for any business. Especially in this economy.

I can't see ONE guy turning out 200 cords of wood, all by his lonesome, doing so part time. I belive another poster already mentioned that would require you to be doing 4 cords a day?

Since you started this thread, how many cords have you cut, split, and stacked?

 

[leon]

firewood biz

As I was timed out and dumped by the web sites message timer
when I was typing my response I will try again.

As I mentioned previously the smallest motorised "Chomper" can help you succeed the decision
as to whether you want a fully automatic chomper or manual "Chomper" is the issue as you will not be able to retrieve a limbed log with the cable while you are splitting the log manually with the hydraulic controls.


You would be able move the "Chomper" to the logs if desired eliminating the need for a skid loader or tractor unless you purchase the smallest "Chomper" powered by a tractors 540 r.p.m., power take off.


You could skid the log(s) with a car hood using the winch and numerous sheave blocks to pull them out to a central location to winch them into the chompers shearing chute.

You have the advantage of a very long wire rope in the winch itself which in itself will allow you to double the length from the chomper that you can winch firewood logs as the full length of rope can be used to reduce the number of moves to save on possible flat tires and also double the radius of the area you can clear stumpage.

You just have to determine the routing for the wire rope, logs, and sheave blocks if you are required to leave standing timber and it will simply take time to plan the route with the wire rope .


Sheared wood dries faster than split wood as was proven by the Department Of Energy study about the "Chompers" splitting splitting method versus the use of a wood splitter.

The chomper also eliminates the need to cut the logs to length as the shear is what does that with the shearing blade using hydraulic power and all you will be doing is limbing the logs before you winch them to the "Chomper".

The issue of "Limbing" is one of time as you can use the larger diameter limbs for firewood as well.

About kindling:

You would make more money making kindling with firewood logs that can be band sawed and you could sell the slab wood for firewood saving the core of the log for kindling sales.
The 1 cubic foot kiln dried bundles sell for 7 dollars around here with sales tax.

If you employed a motorised band saw you could slab the logs and cut them up later for fire wood when some one wants firewood as the slabs will be less work if they are cut to smaller lengths before they need to be cut up.


About kiln drying firewood:

The firewood is dumped into baskets and heated air or steam heat is used dry the firewood down to an acceptable dryness for wood sales and the destruction of insects.

The heated air is circulated around the baskets and eventually dries to the desired moisture content or after it has been sufficiently heated to kill the insects at a high temperature.

The saw mills with wood kilns have the advantages of economy of scale when kiln drying as they are kiln drying the lumber they will sawing into dimensional lumber and any waste is immediately sized and sacked for sale at retailers.

The sawdust and wood splinters are also used as hog fuel for the steam boilers used to power the kilns in the process and as a result nothing is wasted.

The problem with kiln dried wood is that it is something that is not universally accepted as a
fire wood fuel because of the cost to the consumer -dependent upon the location and the
how receptive the buying public is to kiln dried firewood.

Bakeries and restaurants use kiln dried firewood for their products because of the added flavor
from the wood smoke and and the modern brick ovens cost less to heat with wood as well.


About wood drying:

I have posted on the site here how you can make a heat grabber and using the solid black ADS drainage tubing to preheat the air entering the heat grabber before it is pushed under a round Holzhousen wood stack and the heat never goes to waste.

The problem is the market as you will not have a gauranteed customer base at any time unless you have a contract to provide kiln dried firewood to the end user who feels they need it, otherwise a customer should be prepaying fo the kiln dried wood by the dried ton rather than the cord.



About wood sales..................


Selling firewood by the ton being green, seasoned or kiln dried eliminates any discussion
snorting, stomping, )(*&^*( , complaining arguing about what a rick, face cord, full cord,
thrown cord erc., are to the purchaser as the scale ticket provided to the customer at the time
of sale is legal tender for the firewood in all fifty states AND the customer knows exactly what they are recieving and you know how much is being delivered at all times and this is a big selling point to the consumer and eliminates any accusations of being screwed by the wood guy if you are legitimate and wish to build a customer base year after year.


Making and kiln drying kindling with the stumpage will allow you to make more money with minimal equipment and the slabs could be used to heat a simple hot air furnace to do the job.

About kilns:


I was told by the NYE kiln folks that using a much simpler hot air furnace to dry firewood is more economical and would cost less to own and operate; after all they are in the kiln business and they know about lumber kilns dont they?


Using the band saw to make 1 by 1 blocks to cut into kindling will be an easy process as the log
will be clamped into place as the 1 by 1 stringers are cut with the band saw and later cut to length
for kindling by a second band saw with little sawdust which can be fed to the hot air wood furnace
for fuel.


You need to take the time to build a decision tree to determine the proper course of action for your project as making kindling using a portable band saw may be a more viable option in the scheme of things IN addition to making 2 by 2 or 3 by 3 fire wood blocks with the band saw with less work.

 

[madstone]

A couple of things that I suggest is to raise your price accordingly to the local market. I can't believe that you can only get 125 a cord in your area. I live about 100 miles north of you and we are getting 150-200 a cord depending on how well the wood has seasoned. Another suggestion would be to find as many owb customers that you can. I look for as many of those as I can. Reason being that most owb customers prefer that their wood is unsplit and also it doesn't have to be seasoned as long. For those customers I sell rounds for .100 a cord cause my job is easier as I just cut and throw onto the truck and deliver. I hope you can succeed with your goal. Nothing is impossible, but you will need to be doing it full time. I cut 80-85 cords a year while going to dialysis 3 times a week for kidney failure. I do get my fiance to help me when she is not busy, but for the most part I'm on my own. Good luck to you



If your looking for a place to get a good used saw try Lee at backwoods forest products in fountain mi. He is one of the best saw mechanics I know of and he doesn't sell junk. He does mainly deal in huskys though. He goes through all his.used inventory often.times warranting his work

 

[Dalmatian90]

That's not counting the boiler to go with it. A new full up and running kiln will be 30-40k or more.

Plus the costs of electricity for the fans, wood used to fuel it (whether you count that at your cash cost to cut a cord, or your opportunity cost of losing a cord you could've sold), and you'd probably attract the attention of the local tax assessor.

I was told if you put a tarp over your stacks and leave the ends open and put a box fan on one end and run it during the hot days that it will turn a 6 month drying process into a 6 week process.

I'm HIGHLY skeptical of such a claim. I don't believe a simple tarp allows enough sunlight to enter to heat up the wood, nor enough air circulation even with a fan.

There are solar kiln designs, but they're greenhouses for wood.