Spruce Tree Mystery- Dying?

[jpasquini]

Hi All,

I have had an ongoing thread in UBC Botanical Garden for some time now, about a Norway spruce tree that is dying in my front yard.
The tree is about 4-5 stories high, and is the tallest tree on my block. Pictures and other information are here:


http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/showthread.php?p=117007#post117007


The tree suddenly started browning under the branches about four weeks ago.
I would still like to save the tree, it appears to be clinging to life! Even though the weather has gotten wetter. Cannot figure out what its problem is.
Does anyone here have an idea of what could be killing this poor tree? Thanks for any advice.


J Pasquini


Still trying to save it
:deadhorse:

 

[(WLL)]

welcome

ask treeseer he should be able to help u.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

There is not much in the pictures to get excited about.
When I diagnose a tree health problem, first I look at the root zone for any changes. This is where 90% of tree problems arise. In the one picture that shows the soil, (sideways and not so good, (don't give up your day job) (unless your a photographer ))), it looks like the tree has grown up in that spot without any recent changes.
Next I consider diseases that the species is susceptible to. Norway Spruce are pretty much bomb proof. Somebody mentioned cytospora canker, but you don't see that on Norway's.
With evergreens, I look at the pattern of browning. Is it the new needles, the old needles, both?
In your case it looks like older needles on the lower parts of the branches. It looks like there are many unaffected needles that are located on the top and tips of the limbs. Is that accurate?
If so I would say you have a combination of two things happening. First, is just some normal needle shedding. Needles only live for 3 years, so the tree needs to shed 1/3 of its needles each year, many of those fall in fall.
Second, is we could be seeing some stress related shedding. The person who suggested drought damage is likely spot on.
You have a tree growing in limited soil area because of the house and drive, then lawn area over the majority of the roots, and finally, lower limb removal which exposes the roots to full sun, among other things.
Tree roots give off CO2, during drought, the CO2 builds up in the soil to toxic levels. You see, water is what normally drives out the CO2.
A last thought is over watering. Could you have over watered due to the new plantings, or damaged roots of this tree installing the new ones?

 

[jpasquini]

Thanks Mike, Will.

That is a relief to hear. This year has been unusually dry (I had two new bushes brown & die out front nearby, but they were dwarf Albertas and I think they need more humidity.)

You hit the key- watering. There is a driveway nearby and the previous owner put plastic & rock around part of the house, so I really don't know how this tree waters itself.
After hearing it may be drying out, I gave it a couple good waterings over a couple week. Unfortunately I forgot the hose was on and one was a deluge.......I then read afterwards on Net that overwatering is the 'fastest way to kill a Spruce". To water or not to water?? It's about all I can do and I have no idea how to tell when or how much.

The tree was hit hard by a sapsucker this summer. It took up camp and simply refused to go away. I finally tied crumpled tinfoil around the trunk and it moved on. The holes are still there and its leaked alot of sap. But tops and tips remain all green.

It may not look it in the pic, but this is a BIG tree. Would cost a pretty penny to remove, and hurt house value too. Not to mention it just looks tragic, it almost seems to be weeping in pain. But this tree doctor guy talking about fungus and spraying needed, and his ever mounting bill estimates sounds suspicious (see other thread). He sounded way too much like a salesman.

Hang on and watch? :monkey:

 

[underwor]

I will agree with Mike on most everything. Only comment is that you can have Leucostoma kunzei (Cytospora) on Norway Spruce. It is usually aggravated by drought and other stresses. In IL this was not a big player if the trees were healthy. They seemed to outgrow the disease, but once stress was added, the disease became much more noticeable.

As I said I think Mike is right on about normal leaf fall, drought stress and other things. If Cytospora is present, it is secondary to the soil related problems and largely untreatable beyond good cultural practices already mentioned, aeration and watering. If the new growth looks good and you are not seeing whole limbs dying off, just small branchlets throughout the tree, don't get overly concerned.

In ND, we have Spruce on the Prairie syndrome. A tree planted way off site in a dry, exposed, poorly drained, high pH environment. Hits about 30 - 50 years after planting. Moscow Russia has all sorts of housing developments going into Norway Spruce forests. As soon as the stand was opened up and dried out, decline sets in followed by borers and chainsaws.

 

[jpasquini]

How often do you water, and how much?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Give it a good soaking, then let it dry out before watering again, just like a house plant. Poke down into the soil a few inches to test moisture.
If you keep it constantly wet, it interferes with the soil gas exchange I talked about (co2 out, fresh air in), and can set you up for soil fungus problems, like root rot.
If you go 2 weeks without rain, in the heat of the summer, get the hose out. And again, if your not sure, poke your finger or a stick in the soil.

 

[oldphart]

looks like mine

Your pine looks just like mine. The wife and I were very concerned several years ago when our very large pine browned out and we took some samples to the U of M here for a tree guy to look at, he said it was just normal needle dropping like Mike said (wow 7200 posts, whew) and no need for alarm. It is funny we never noticed it before but the tree did get it's needles back and is still healthy, I think they just have "banner years" where the browning becomes very visible, like this year. Not to worry would be my best advice (cheaper too) .