Tapered Hinge Revisited

[glens]

I'm not wanting to derail this thread, but will somebody please explain to me the virtue of placing a reply before (above) the replied-to content?  This is not the first time this has occurred here.  It's so unintuitive to use that way; you must stutter-step backwards through the whole thing to read it in order.  It doesn't flow, is needlessly difficult, and doesn't make any sense at all to me...

Glen

 

[NeTree]

Glen,

Mean you do what?

 

[Nickrosis]

Maybe computer people are just wired differently, but I would've liked to see an introductory, "I received this letter" followed by the letter followed by, "I responded with" followed by the response. Just a formatting thing...

Edit: I don't want to write another off-topic reply, but I think glen mentioned something in the way that he does. It didn't seem overly harsh or finger pointing to me. .02

 

[murphy4trees]

Glen,
I AM feeling angry at your reply:
"I'm not wanting to derail this thread, but will somebody please explain to me the virtue of placing a reply before (above) the replied-to content? This is not the first time this has occurred here. It's so unintuitive to use that way; you must stutter-step backwards through the whole thing to read it in order. It doesn't flow, is needlessly difficult, and doesn't make any sense at all to me...

Glen"

I was trying to take the conversation to the next level on a subject that can make a huge difference and maybe save a few lives down the road...
And once again you bring the conversation to "WHAT'S CONVENIENT FOR GLEN!"

This world is not set up for your benefit or convenience... asking to resize pics is acceptable given the time and energy it takes you to download.... Yet was it really necessary to make the above point...
We're not in grade school anymore... The world isn't always perfect.... DEAL WITH IT!

IMJ your above post is a bunch of whining... Needless and useless...
I'd appreciate it if you PMed or emailed me or others with any such requests you have in the future rather than needlessly derail a thread.

my judgements... my anger... I own them.... Now I get to look at the part of me that likes the world to operate at my convenince... which I have projected onto you.... It's there... so thank you for the mirror...

 

[glens]

Mike, "messages, emails, and other computer messages are all layed out like that"?  That is emphatically incorrect.  There's only one company I know which suggests the backward-nested layout is a good idea, and they're also responsible for the other questionable process you touch on.

Dan, I'm sorry I angered you.&nbsp; Please accept my apology.&nbsp; It's not a matter of "what's convenient for [only] Glen".&nbsp; Even Nick concurred.&nbsp; When I present information, I usually attempt to not make the recipient of that information have to work too hard (hard at all, really) to assimilate it.&nbsp; I might make them think a little, but I don't want to inconvenience them by the presentation.&nbsp; That was the thrust of my point.&nbsp; If you receive a reply to an (recent) email, maybe you don't need to be reminded what you'd written.&nbsp; With what you presented here today, either I read the reply first (entirely out of context) and then the original (and then refresh my memory by looking through the reply again), or I "simply" hunt for the start of the original, read through it, then hunt for the start of the reply and read <i>it</i>.&nbsp; How do you do it with a backwards series of communication with which you must get entirely up to speed?&nbsp; When you're presenting such, you should do it in a polite and convenient way, by formatting it sensibly and sequentially.

My complaint about the size of the images is only partly based on my ability to steep a cup of tea while they're in transit.&nbsp; I'd preach the same thing even were I on broadband.&nbsp; It's a "being polite" issue.&nbsp; Polite to the viewers, whomever they may be, and equally to the site sponsor, who must provide storage space for the data, and pay for the bandwidth to serve it.

I'm happy you're concerned about others' safety and are taking steps to promote it.

Glen

 

[murphy4trees]

latest reply to TCI

Here is the latest letter to TCI..

In a message dated 8/25/2004 4:07:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:


1. Several people at the ISA show apparently asked him to explain the saw-through on the cover photo. I know you and I had talked about it, but can you provide me a brief explanation of why you used that? I may want to print it as Lee thinks it needs to be explained.


Don and Lee,
The short answer is that the center plunge was made to remove overall fiber from the hinge, making it easier to pull over a backleaner.

Removing fiber from the center of the hinge allows the hinge to be thicker on its sides, which is considered by many, including me, to be beneficial. The corners of the hinge offer the most resistance against twisting and therefore hinge failure. Also one school of thought suggests that removing heartwood is beneficial, because heartwood has less flexibility than sapwood, which makes sense though I have not seen any science to support that thinking.

Center plunge is often used by loggers to prevent fiber pull, which can result in loss of value to the log, and can be used to allow room to set a wedge in smaller diameter trees. The technique has also been taught by Arbormaster to be used on back leaners, for the reasons described above. There is however some debate in the arborist community about the benefits of the center plunge on back leaners as some believe a thinner hinge has more flexibility and therefore greater ability to hold the tree in the intended falling path before breaking.

You may also have noticed that the center plunge is off-center. In this case, the tree had a slight side lean towards a house in addition to a significant back lean. The plunge was made on the compressed side of the hinge in order to leave as much fiber as possible on the tensioned side of the hinge, for reasons described in detail in the article. This left only a small tab of holding wood on the compressed side of the hinge, which was all that was required to prevent twisting and hinge failure.

I have complete photos of the entire removal of this twin lead red oak. The first lead had a head lean and the second a back lean. Each was about 24" dbh and 85' high. Perhaps I could write a short article about this job and call it "Anatomy of a Removal". In this case the drops landed perfectly, one directly on top of the other, which makes for some fairly impressive photos.

 

[murphy4trees]

here's the link to Tim Ard's full piece...


http://www.forestapps.com/news/Page5.gif

 

[chris_girard]

I also wanted to mention that Jerry Beranek in his Fundamentals book talks about the same type of gun compensation as Tim Ard does. Look on page 322 under SIDE LEANERS.

 

[Toddppm]

I don't have Dent's book, what was written that is wrong about the Tapered hinge?
The way I had been taught was to leave a wider taper on the opposite side of the direction you were aiming

How about in this link to one of Tim Ards lessons http://www.forestapps.com/tips/hinge/hinge.htm

In it he says"It should also be noted that the fibers of the hinge tend to break from the back. As the tree falls, fibers along the back of the hinge will break first. After the tree reaches a certain point in its fall, only the fibers at the front of the hinge are left to finish steering the tree. Therefore, making a hinge thin on one side will not accomplish any steering function. "

Isn't that saying that a tapered hinge is not effective? Did he change his tune?
Read up on a few other threads on tapered hinge, alot of different opinions some talking about the notch doesn't even matter, the back cut does the steering

 

[a_lopa]

more efective than any taper

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Aussie, Oxman tried to explain/present that 'keyhole"(?) strategy. What is your take on it?

Tod, i think if the fibers broke, they did so pulling. The farther from the compressed part of the hinge, the more leveraged that pull was. i think taking the tapered hinge into the tree for horizontal sweeps (more leveraged angle of test than felling) gives different feel and proof for tapered hinge power.

 

[a_lopa]

dropped 5 bluegums slight oposing wind this arvo using that method(i put a rope on last one),check out the ones in the background a guy has a skidder with a big saw going around

 

[a_lopa]

any more info you can go to my site and buy the cd- rom,or call my 1900 trees ph no

 

[a_lopa]

for you erik lifetime guarantee

 

[a_lopa]

hey you got to buy to find out,i offered mike the cd rom from tree u for christmas LOL....