The Pusher Man

[John Ellison]

Who has done a lot of pushing trees? Down low as in dozer or skidder and with a face and backcut. Anybody regularly push fair sized timber against the lean? What do you do with your backcut, lower than the notch, or what?

I have pushed over far less trees than I have wedged or pulled and of those most have been smaller ones.

I'd like to hear any comments about what you do or dont do. Lets just assume that the machine operator is sane and will follow your directions to the letter.
Also, any horror stories? What went wrong and why?

 

[beelsr]

I've done a fair bit with my John Deere 500C.

What I normally do is: face cut, put the bucket up against the trunk, give a little pressure - just enough to set the blade really, make the back cut normally but maybe leave a bigger hinge, put the JD in drive and push it over.

the face is usually humboldt so the butt will ride the stump. you don't want to put much pressure on the trunk for barber-chairing reasons. I have wrapped trunks with chain and a binder if I felt I needed more pressure with the bucket to combat a little lean but I generally don't do this for lean. No real horror stories but then, I haven't tried anything horrific... :-O

 

[clearance]

Iv'e done it quite a bit, I think its not allowed but here goes. Almost everything with hoes, the bigger the better, usually a 200 size machine, like a EX200, Cat 225, JD 690 that kind of thing. The machine has to have a r.o.p.s.. I make sure the operator knows what to do and will do what I say, this is crucial. I get the bucket (the rock bucket, not the smooth cleanout one) way up high on the tree. I position the machine so if the tree goes over backwards it will be on the other side of the cab. I get the bucket stuck into the tree but not pushing, then I put in a healthy undercut. Then I signal for pressure, I like just enough so I don't get pinched, but thats it, too much now and the tree will chair. I complete my backcut, just like normal, a little higher than the undercut. Then I walk away and give the operator the thumbs up, he will wait untill I am in the clear and push it over by moving the machine ahead. On smaller trees the guy can use the swing of the machine, you have to pay attention to where the bucket is, you don't want the tree to slip off sideways as it falls.

 

[sILlogger]

ive pushed over a bunch of trees with loaders and even for with log skidders. i make a face cut and bore into the tree and leave 2 "ears" holding on the corners of the face and bore out the entire tree and leave a strap across a small section of the back. apply pressure with the machine (preferebly with he rear are of the skidder, with it in reverse and as the operator is holding pressure cut the strap down diagnally and push the tree over. ive pushed over oak trees that were 5 ft across this way...usually works quite well have had a few get alway from me but i don't care who you are there is only so much you can do..never tore anything up..

 

[jon72]

I usually use a wedge but if the wood is frozen or the tree has alot of backlean I'll push it with the arch of my skidder.I use an open face bore cut like sILlogger.
If you don't leave enough hinge you can push the tree off the stump.This I've done.Or on large trees with butt swells the swell can get caught under the apron and hang on to the skidder till the tree hits the ground.This I've also done.

 

[Forest Steward]

I've done it with skidders as small as a JD 540 and as big as a JD 740. Bigger seems to be better as long as you have enough access to the tree. It's not just the extra engine power, but the added weight can help stabilize you. Don't really do much special with the face cut. I like boring it out as much as you can in general, but especially when it comes to pushing them over. If it starts falling back on you before you can finish boring it, use the skidder to hold it up just enough the bar to get through the cut. Then give 'er some gas. But yes, don't get carried away and cut it completely off. When it hits, that butt could come flying up or back on you. That could do some damage to your machine.

 

[Buzz 880]

I have pushed lots of tree's over against there natural lean both with skidded dozer and high hoe.If using skidder i just but the blade up against the back of the tree make notch then back cut leaving couple inchs of holding wood get back in the skidder and push slowly till tree goes over.With the hoe witch's 15 ton or bigger i just get the operator to rest the bucket on the tree put notch in back cut just above notch till just the right hinge wood walk away and he just pushs it over.We almost lost a big white pine on to the trans Canada highway last summer we had a John Deere 225 behind it but the operator was trying to push it with the swing of the machine it was very windy probably shouldn't been there but it had to be done so i had to drive a few wedges in the back so he could reposition and push it with the machine driving forward it all worked out but a little scary if things had of gone wrong the hole town would have lost power and the north bound lanes would be closed for a while.

 

[clearance]

Scary stuff Buzz, must have been a Cat if was a 225. I had a lot of fun working with an excellent operator, he had an old 225 with the forestry package and thumb, I had a 288 with a 32" bar, it was a massacre.

 

[Buzz 880]

Scary stuff Buzz, must have been a Cat if was a 225. I had a lot of fun working with an excellent operator, he had an old 225 with the forestry package and thumb, I had a 288 with a 32" bar, it was a massacre.

It's a brand new 220 something john deere zero tail swing nice machine can't keep track the guy's i cut roads and lots for have 15 to 20 hoe's all new stuff not sure how they do it some times i think i'm in the wrong bussiness .

 

[joesawer]

I have pushed a lot of trees, both as the faller and operator.
The only time you need to cut under the face cut is if there is bad limb lock or you are trying to force the tree through vines, other trees or something similar. Remember that if your back cut is lower it will help to prevent the machine from pushing the hinge off but it also requires a lot more pressure to move the tree forward, sometimes it might not be worth the trade. If you have to push so hard so low that you are worried about the hinge you might want to consider other options. I will usually just leave a thick hinge and have the operator move the tree very slowly and advance my back cut as needed to prevent barberchair
The biggest thing is getting the operator to understand what you need. Most of the time I cut a push tree like a normal pull tree. Rest the machine against it while making face cut, add some pressure, start back cut, make sure the operator doesn't push faster than you cut, leave a good hinge, step away and signal operator to tip it over.
The operators tend to want to push to much to fast and ride the tree to the ground. Make sure that they understand that you only need them to hold the tree up and then tip it over.
My biggest scare came when falling some trees for my dad when he was adding a swimming pool. It was my dad, his skid steer, his tree and his house. He has never really respected what I do or taken directions from me very well. He was pushing a 36" loblolly pine with the skid steer. He pushed faster than I could cut, as the tree started to move and I was racing to finish my hinge I felt my leg being pushed very hard. It was the front tire of the skid steer. I ran away and let it fall with a large triangle shaped hinge. the only thing that saved my leg was the other front tire rode up the swell of the stump when he surged forward and left enough room under the the tire for me to jerk my leg out. My pants had tire tracks up to my thigh.

 

[Buzz 880]

I have pushed a lot of trees, both as the faller and operator.
The only time you need to cut under the face cut is if there is bad limb lock or you are trying to force the tree through vines, other trees or something similar. Remember that if your back cut is lower it will help to prevent the machine from pushing the hinge off but it also requires a lot more pressure to move the tree forward, sometimes it might not be worth the trade. If you have to push so hard so low that you are worried about the hinge you might want to consider other options. I will usually just leave a thick hinge and have the operator move the tree very slowly and advance my back cut as needed to prevent barberchair
The biggest thing is getting the operator to understand what you need. Most of the time I cut a push tree like a normal pull tree. Rest the machine against it while making face cut, add some pressure, start back cut, make sure the operator doesn't push faster than you cut, leave a good hinge, step away and signal operator to tip it over.
The operators tend to want to push to much to fast and ride the tree to the ground. Make sure that they understand that you only need them to hold the tree up and then tip it over.
My biggest scare came when falling some trees for my dad when he was adding a swimming pool. It was my dad, his skid steer, his tree and his house. He has never really respected what I do or taken directions from me very well. He was pushing a 36" loblolly pine with the skid steer. He pushed faster than I could cut, as the tree started to move and I was racing to finish my hinge I felt my leg being pushed very hard. It was the front tire of the skid steer. I ran away and let it fall with a large triangle shaped hinge. the only thing that saved my leg was the other front tire rode up the swell of the stump when he surged forward and left enough room under the the tire for me to jerk my leg out. My pants had tire tracks up to my thigh.

You are right there it is nice to have a good operator that knows what you want and listens i have had a few pushing to hard and almost blowing the tree up in my face.

 

[sILlogger]

pushed over 6-8 good sized oaks with a 525 Cat skidder today

 

[Buzz 880]

pushed over 6-8 good sized oaks with a 525 Cat skidder today

Were's the pic's

 

[sILlogger]

i know i know... i had a busy day, i was in teh woods from 8 am to 6 pm...took a 20 minute lunch.....didn't have the camera(excuse, i know) might try to get some tom. we cut 2 little patches today. and moving to a bigger one tom...i'll try my best