training pics 2

[heartland]

Ok guys, here is a link to another technique we practiced. You've all heard of the fishing pole:

http://home.attbi.com/~ttrentadue/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-620681.html

This is a pic of me just before making the backcut. After getting all the blocks setup, here is what happend:

-face cut was made (horizontal to ground & perpendicular to grain)
-attached half hitch & running bowline
-attached loop runner for speed line (speed line was slack)

We had a group of Texas A&M students watching this. I made the backcut by hand.... the piece dropped into the block, then we tensioned up the speedline a bit and let it run. One thing we left out that would have helped is a pull line: the piece was almost too light to move down the speedline on its own.

Oh ya, just for fun - here is a pic of some of the guys.... holy cow, look at all those ropes

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Very Nice TimT. Thanx for bringing these here.

i assume 'fishing pole technique' is for weak branch, support? Extra trailing connections for suports (and possibly failsafe takeovers of support?).

i kinda would have put the 2nd, connection/support on main at a better support angle and strength than that of trailing supports, but perhaps that is to obvious and they were teaching this specific technique, with what is at hand.

The load also looks like one that i wopuld trust to rescue pulleys/ looprunners that i generally carry on me, not seent up, and more condensed mountings. But once again, perhaps they just neede to show werking these tools, to this strategy in the situation presented. Kinda hard trying to show someone something specific, on that day on item you have; that specifically matches and maximizes everytime.

Very good strategy about catching load, then tensing speed line as load is held in position, i beleive this is best lesson. i carry loop runners always. 'Bout ~6x now, i've been in position of risk, lack of light, lack of lines, looming storms etc., and i have taken this a step further, but same princi-pal of catching laod, then tensing speedline so as not to shock the msot shockable speedline. i caught the load in a supported loop runner, set speedline and drew out my hand saw (manual sabre), and downgraded my oldest loop runner, low resistance under tension in looprunner to cutting. Once i cheated and cut the support of the looprunner instead, leaning it over slowly (finish with hand saw to go slow and get a slow motion education/examination of hinging), adding more buffer to speedline taking on load. Once in risky storm damage the detonation of the sling was remote with a pole saw, as there was too many variables in the immediate vicicnity and nothing to hide behind/under. Ended up nothing shook loose, but had already told customer, that to limit damage immediately, some more damage might be incurred, cuz all you can do is is all you can do sometimes; and they have to respect your rep to do your best, perhaps be best available for best chance. Someone smart would have told'em to pray tonight and bucket if storm doesn't hit for the next 3 days like they say we'll see if we can get a bucket out etc., but in 2 hrs. it will be dark, 1 hr. it will be raining, how much money you got?

i just cut this short, cut out the part about this reminding me about other speedline positions than from above load.......

 

[murphy4trees]

Nice idea spidy about wasting a loop runner remotely to keep climber away from danger... I really like the way you think...

AS far as the fishing pole.... I have worked hard over the years at keeping an open mind about the many new techniques being taught.. And I admit I tend to stubornly resist change...
That said:
The fishing pole makes a pretty picture.. especially with all those colorful slings... yet I question it's practical application. How often will this be a preferred rigging method???? IMJ So few it's not worth the time to teach... If you can climb out there to set the blocks.. you ought to be able to support the last one with a guy tied back to the trunk... or spread the weight out some other way... Seems like there's a lot of ground to cover in any rigging course and the fishing pole should be at the bottom of the list..
How many of you actually use and/or recommend fishing????

 

[Joe]

 

[treeclimber165]

I double crotch my lowering lines a lot, never did the fishing pole thing though. I gain the same advantages plus many more.
I like setting my lowering line through two pulleys over two separate landing zones.
The load is shared between both attachments so there is less load on each individual pulley (and supporting limb).
The rope man is forced to stand out of my way so I do not have to instruct him not to stand under the limb I'm cutting.
I can work with either end of the rope, rigging to either side of a tree without having to set another rope.
I can pick the appropriate rigging point for each limb without having to reset it when swapping back and forth.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

wow i call that working in a 'U' to keep the groundie out from the load. Springy branches for supports can pull together at sudden, leveraged loading and give sudden drop with that; but then you can compress that for some pre-lift/tension by drawing supports together, so as you cut later with the right flexability /strength factor in support spars the spring helps! Dynamic and static strenght charachteristics just like synthetic fibre( you can pre laod the rubberband (nylon line/springy branch). Or sometimes work either side of the U, put a butterfly on light load side aawhen first load is on the ground, and use sling/ karabs to hitch limbs to butterfly. You can clear 2 'zones' like this swinging back and forth or whatever, and the rope return isn't a uselsess move, as it brings a load down each time.

Taken a step further, place line in center natural or false crotch, in host tree, or even another tree, redirecting support to the weaker members through false crotch per load all day. To place less stress on chosen near to work support make pulley on it hang down lower, so other support carries more load. Too make them all strong, go high and strong with Main support, choose a "columnar" type spar, that directs force straight down. Or if conditions are right, iwas working for some billboard contracts, those 2'diametr pipes are smooth, super strong, heat dissipating, high support; especially right over it's own column, directing force to ground. Support is support, smooth metal is smooth metal, a column directing force straight into the ground is same as. Doesn't hurt to look around!

Conversely, working stuff out of a smooth clean center high spar as extra support for various loads for a few hours, i've had pulley mounted on a loop runner, and slipped it up and down the smooth spar to meter how much force each of the supports was getting per load by manipulating the relationship of the angle between the heghts of the supports. Sometimes, that was to do that, and or, adjust how much friction that the other support (natural crotch ) was providing, even how much 'spring" i could put in other support for dynamic loading or pretensioning, or actually some lift as hinge starts to release some, plus a backup support if that experiment goes wrong! Evein if it fails, if it is hitched, it just goes down with the load if it is on load side. Done it where i knew it would fail and using natural crotch of support closest to load, jsut have that dang karab and sling on there (even if it wasn't supporting line) and it slides down with load on the line.

 

[murphy4trees]

Treeco,
What you described is not the fishing pole technique, and is a very effective technique which is just one example of how many better alternatives there are in the all but the rarest of rigging situations.

 

[monkeypuzzle]

Who has time for this? Cool if you work for a company by the hour I guess. Those AM folks just want your $$$$. Consume,consume,comsume, it's what this country is all about.

 

[Joe]

I will disagree with the notion A.M. is about only making money. Look at the education system as a whole and how much time we spend in the classroom throughout our lives. A.M. has specialized in training a part of the workforce for tree care operations which require skills needed to approach trees in a logical manner. I won't knock a good thing when I see it. A.M. is filling a void that has been needed in this industry. I attended a 1 day seminar put on by Rip Tompkins and walked away convinced of the value of what these guys can teach us. The Art and Science of Practical Rigging video series for which A.M. collaborated is to my knowledge the best of it's kind. They earned their reputation for having a very good training program. Their reputation wasn't bought.

I wish I could have gone through their training program when I started in this business. With some of the things I discovered and learned over the years, I think I would be even better had I started out learning what these guys teach.

If heartland continues to pursue his education of climbing and the other aspects of treecare that A.M. teaches, I'd expect some unique solutions to some complicated problems in climbing and rigging on down the road.

Joe

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i second, and add;

That even if you never took an AM class,
or bought a Sherrill product;

If you were serious in any way about this 'stuff',
and perhaps even if not,

You should thank them.

For what they have scoured the world and their own insights for,
and have brought back form overseas etc., by way of device, technique and outright science.

Anddddddd
ummmmmmmm

That includes,
previous to coming,
to this sight they provide;
to find your own kind,

and as such,
in there own house........



:alien: