Or leaving it may cost millions IF it is a high risk trees and kills someone.
Tulip Poplar with hollow base
- Thread starter sps46
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Yes, but when it comes to spending money, the government won't do anything until after the fact. The chances of somebody hitting it anytime soon are pretty low, so the gamble is leave it and it won't cost anything. Removing the tree is sure to be costly, and there may not be money in the budget to do this, whereas any accident claim would be covered by whatever liability insurance is held by the county. To bring a lawsuit directly against the county you'd need to be able to prove negligence, which is why the tree needs to be inspected by a qualified independent arborist and a registered letter sent.
Absolutely
Look into Maryland statutes on road right of ways. Here in KY it clearly states that County roads shall have a 30' right of way meaning 15' either side of the road from the roads center line if at all possible. I agree with others that someone is/might be blowing smoke because they don't want to deal with it. Your probably looking at couple thousand if not more for an arborist to take it down.
KY law:
https://codes.findlaw.com/ky/title-xv-roads-waterways-and-aviation/ky-rev-st-sect-178-040.htmlLaws in Maryland may be different. Good luck. jmho
OT
I can almost guarantee you it is a home for some Raccoons. And if you have the black carpenter ants in Maryland the inside is junk and it will eventually come down on its own. Just saying.
OT
Also, if they told you that you are the sole owner, it seems to me that they put the guardrail on your property? Did you give them permission if that should be the case? Just wondering. OT
I would leave the stump up a bit higher than the guardrail.
ROW laws are usually clear on surveys.
Mine show a 50' from center of road.
But every state has their own rules to make things muddy.
I like the "you come and remove your guardrail junk or I will" approach.
Talking to a lawyer who knows your state/town land laws would work, but might cost $$
ROW laws are usually clear on surveys.
Mine show a 50' from center of road.
But every state has their own rules to make things muddy.
I like the "you come and remove your guardrail junk or I will" approach.
Talking to a lawyer who knows your state/town land laws would work, but might cost $$
Update...County is unimpressed by my concerns and is very firm in standing behind their claim that there is no Right of Way, that they only claim maintenance rights to work on the road surface and guardrail (and that this does not constitute right of way), that I am solely responsible for any work done on the tree, and that the Guardrail Division has no concerns about anything I might do to the tree. Communicated to me by the Chief County Arborist.
There is a section on the County website about applying for work orders for trees on private property that are in the right of way...but the County Arborist says that does not apply to my tree because it is not in a right of way. Even if it did it appears that the work order simply authorizes me to hire someone to take down the tree and would not involve the County performing the work.
The tree has been inspected by an independent arborist and deemed a hazard. I notified the County Arborist of this. They do not care. They maintain that it is none of their business because they do not own the land and that they do not remove trees on private property under any circumstances.
The County Arborist was polite and responsive at least.
Short of seeking legal counsel I've exhausted my arguments and will need to find someone willing to perform the work.
There is a section on the County website about applying for work orders for trees on private property that are in the right of way...but the County Arborist says that does not apply to my tree because it is not in a right of way. Even if it did it appears that the work order simply authorizes me to hire someone to take down the tree and would not involve the County performing the work.
The tree has been inspected by an independent arborist and deemed a hazard. I notified the County Arborist of this. They do not care. They maintain that it is none of their business because they do not own the land and that they do not remove trees on private property under any circumstances.
The County Arborist was polite and responsive at least.
Short of seeking legal counsel I've exhausted my arguments and will need to find someone willing to perform the work.
The County says I have no right to remove their guardrail. Despite them claiming no right of way and I being the sole owner of the land.
I must admit that I'm a bit confused about this but they aren't budging.
The fact that a public road and a guardrail are installed means that there is a right-of -way. These can't be installed on private property. If the guardrail were on your property, and somebody were to hit the guard and be injured or killed, you. as the sole owner according to the county, and the party who removed the tree, are also solely responsible and could be taken to court. Claiming maintenance rights for the road and guardrail means they have a right-of-way.......otherwise they would need your permission to do anything. If there were to be an accident, you can bet the position of the county would be that you illegally removed a tree from their ROW....
You need to get a lawyer....If the property is indeed yours with no right of way specified or recorded, you have the county over a barrel. You also need to have an independent survey done to see what is what. Don't rely on the lazy corrupt government officials to screw you over.....
Do you have a copy of the deed to your property? It should have ROWs listed and a map.
That is the worst thing you can do.....
Before it was just a tree that grew there naturally, and which the road was built around.
However, once you remove the tree, its now a fixed object left there as part of an incomplete removal. As such you are responsible and can be taken to court for damages.
As for a lawyer costing a few bucks to figured this out, so what? If the road is on property where the county has no ROW privileges, better to find out now than after something bad happens...The county could claim adverse possession because they have been maintaining the road for years, but if they do that puts the tree right back in their hands....
I have a survey of my property. I own the land. The surveyor dropped survey pins into the asphalt of the road (I own about 60% of the land the road sits on on this location).
The County is insistent that there is no Right of Way. I agree that this is confusing and seems to involve distinctions without a difference.
The County is insistent that there is no Right of Way. I agree that this is confusing and seems to involve distinctions without a difference.
Exactly why you need to talk to a lawyer. If the county has installed a road on your property without a ROW, you need to know....and you need to know what your rights are....The county isn't about to tell you for obvious reasons.
Even if the tree is in the County right of way...I'm not sure that requires them to remove it. From what I've read it simply imposes a burden on me, the owner of the land, to consult the County and receive their authorization before I pay someone to remove it.
But I am definitely curious about what my rights are on this land in general now....tree aside.
But I am definitely curious about what my rights are on this land in general now....tree aside.
Yes it does require them to remove it. Generally, a ROW for a municipality means they own technically own the land, even though the property is part of your deed, and they can exercise their right to use it whenever they want for whatever purpose they want, ie widening the road or making other improvements. If they have a ROW through your property for a road, they are (or should be) held responsible for maintaining it and keeping it free from hazards. This includes removing hazardous trees. You could get permission to remove it yourself, but why pay somebody to do it when the county should be doing it?
Yes, you really need to find out what your rights are, and more importantly you need to find out what your legal exposure is and what possible liabilities may be in the future. If there is no established ROW that could be a problem for both you and the county....
Make sure there is a record of this notification. Get a signed receipt, send a copy of the report (keep the original) by registered mail with signature and return receipt required.
Obviously this is going to be variable by State.
But, on a technicality, it might not "require" them to remove it. It just makes them liable for damages IF it is an identifiable hazard presenting an undue risk. ALL trees present a certain level of risk. The question is whether that risk for this tree is past a certain (frankly somewhat nebulous) threshold.
The OP has a report from an expert claiming a certain degree of risk (hopefully well-documented using ISA's tree risk assessment protocol or another with similar credibility). County could have their own expert examine the tree and come to a different conclusion. Then if it fails and ends up in court it becomes a battle of whose expert knew what...
I tested the waters and called a few real estate/land use attorneys today. None of them were interested in providing a consultation on this and they couldn't tell me who would be.
Will bite the bullet soon. But not sure I'll find anyone willing to do the work anyway.
Will bite the bullet soon. But not sure I'll find anyone willing to do the work anyway.
No, it shouldn't vary a whole lot state to state. The county has been notified that a tree that is obviously in a maintenance ROW that they have put claim to is a hazard. There is no way around that even if they pay somebody to say otherwise. Doing so would be foolish, opening them to not only any claims arising from injuries or damage caused by the tree, but to negligence charges if they ignore the hazard notification and the tree fails. That will not only fall on the county, but on the individual making the decisions here.
Once the county has been notified, they should send somebody to take a look. The tree will be evaluated and placed on a list based on a priority system and removed within a reasonable amount of time according to the evaluations.
I was on the government end of this stuff for a lot of years, and thats generally how its done...
We do not know how qualified the guy he had is. We do not know how thorough of an investigation that guy did. If an actual tree risk qualified arborist documents, for example, with a resistograph or Sonic tomography that the decay column is very limited it is not unreasonable to categorize the tree as low risk.
I'm not saying it is that. I am saying I don't know. People who remove trees for a living tend to see every defect as an extreme hazard. Not all... Just a tendency.
I'm not saying it is that. I am saying I don't know. People who remove trees for a living tend to see every defect as an extreme hazard. Not all... Just a tendency.
hmmm, if part of tree falls and blocks road what would happen?
