Unauthorized Trespass-Tree Damage

[J-sun]

chain or cable

Oh, forgot to answer Tree Trimmer's question.

Dan Flinn said it looked like a rope. But I"m not sure if that means really a rope or if it could be a cable? I did notice there is some black streaking onto the wood where the gouge is the deepest.

 

[NeTree]

Long story short, a consulting arborist is higher in education.

 

[Reed]

American Society of Consulting Arborists. ASCA.

Yeah, maybe a little more read-up on structure or physiology, but the point is they have venom when it comes down to the courtroom. All testimony on cross is invalidated unless those initials are after the fellow's name. At least from a phone-call retainer, he/she can find the weaknesses of both the rental management outfit and the crew used. If HUD money is involved, start dreaming about a whole new yard.

Keep in mind that the authorities you called can only apply criminal statutes, but the police report is essential to have any case for civil redress. I would suggest you get the paperwork filed, they'll ask you if you elect to prosecute but I'd tell the investigators to keep it at tresspass, damages you'll seek personally in small claims (the max). That's my opinion. Someone needs to dig after the management company and index the damages, that's why I recommend ASCA.

Here just saw a commercial for a huge landscrape/tree company, they brag about being the first "city authorized" licensed arborist company yet they had 30 seconds on T.V. showing a guy w/o protection of any sort on top of an extension ladder stubbing a live limb rougly 6" dia. with one hand operating a bucking saw. The soundbite was "20 years experience in sculpting beautiful live oaks".

ASCA ASCA ASCA!!

 

[fpyontek]

Oh, forgot to answer Tree Trimmer's question.

Dan Flinn said it looked like a rope. But I"m not sure if that means really a rope or if it could be a cable? I did notice there is some black streaking onto the wood where the gouge is the deepest.

Not that it matters much now, but that type of damage is only done with a chain. In the photo on your initial post you can see where the links dug in. A cable would have produced a deep groove and a rope would have worn away bark with a slight indentation.

Fred

 

[J-sun]

Tree dmg/trespass--What Should I Do Next?

I'm stumped now, (no pun intended)--and would like input on how I might procede:

I am at a crossroads. I have had two certified arborists, but not consulting arborists to my site--both who did an initial look & see type visit. They both have offered general letters of what they saw, but of course need to charge for anything beyond that with estimates of damage. So, the next step will cost me money. It's hard to spend money for something that has happened to me by negligence. I've gotten a quote of $65 flat fee from one cert. arborist for a value cost letter, and $75/hour from a Consulting arborist --he stated he was a member of asca--but not yet certified, but has done court cases--f (who I have not yet made an appt with given my fear of the final costs).

I've gathered much info from both on site visits and all the help in two web threads--I await a free letter from one arborist stating what he saw and the city police investigators call. I guess it is extremely hard for me to decide if I want to spend -- or how much I want to spend -- to determine what I am due. I am not sure how long I should let this linger, but feel I need to wait for the police departments input regarding the trespass.
I guess I know at this point I will have to pay someone for a good quote of damages, I guess I want to spend wisely and go with what will be the best benefit for the cost. That is where I am stumped, I really don't feel I can swing $75/hour for the consulting arborist. But if I spend $65 for a certified arborist letter, will it be a worthy investiment?

By the way for some reason I have neglected to mention that the actual owner of the rental property. . . .is a lawyer who also deals in land . . . I"m not sure if that will help or hurt in the end. I've only communicated with him once direclty, and he told me to let him know if there were ever any problems because he wanted to be a good neighbor. I almost wonder if I should talk to him now . . . or not?????????????


So I guess this is my next request for advice, but I'm not sure if I am going outside the realm of an arborist site. Any input will be appreciated from those who perhaps have had more experience in this type situation.

 

[Reed]

It's clear you have a case. With that in mind it wouldn't hurt to talk with the landowner directly as the ball's in your court and you have the power to call the shots. If he's resistant to what base-line suggestions you've been given so far here from our guys, then tell him you're going on with the process. While he may believe he has legal muscle by his own experience, he does know that the foundation for this squabble is your land and rights were violated and property damaged in the process.

Put both the paperwork and the consulting arborist on hold until he attempts to patronize you, then proceed. That's my opinion. Don't show weakness, just be friendly but direct.

 

[rb_in_va]

While he may believe he has legal muscle by his own experience, he does know that the foundation for this squabble is your land and rights were violated and property damaged in the process.

Just be careful what you say to him. He can use anything you say in court, right? Of course it would be his word against yours, unless he brings a friend. It would be wise to bring a friend of your own if you talk to him, preferably a friend that is also a lawyer!

 

[Reed]

Well that's maybe a little paranoid but I agree somewhat. Never underestimate an adversary, especially a lawyer and even more so when bucks are involved.

Always have document ability, even just driving down the street or waiting in line for concert tickets. 9volt battery-powered voice-activated micro cassette recorder. Cops hate them, politicians are trying to regulate their use, and they can bring a president down. Just good neighbor policy and a citizen's answer to being from the bottom of the American food chain.

 

[treeman82]

Honestly I would suggest that you speak with your neighbor before going any farther. So far you haven't incurred any real costs. Your neighbor seems like he is friendly enough. I would honestly suggest that you just talk with the guy on a friendly level and take it from there. Why bother ruining that relationship if it doesn't have to be ruined? Who knows? Maybe he will help you fight / find the suckers who caused the damage.

 

[NeTree]

Good point, Matt. The adversarial stance should be with the tree company, not the neighbor.

 

[greg carr]

I once had a new foreman take a work order that he wasnt supposed to have and do a "fine prune,slight reduction and shaping" on a very old beautiful florida dogwood.Problem was he used his 020 and made 6 inch cuts back to clumps of sucker growth.I thought the client was going to explode and he was a lawyer on top of it all. We planted a new tree next to the old one and prune the old one every year to keep it looking as good as possible until the new one is ready to take over.All at no charge of course.The client still uses us for all his other pruning and recommends us to his friends.
If you screw up,admit it,fix it and learn from it.
Talk to the neighbor first,he is probably just as mad at these guys as you are.

 

[NeTree]

Welcome Greg!

 

[greg carr]

Thanks,
Getting layed off has given me more time to play on the web.I cant believe I hadnt found this site before.

 

[treeman82]

A while ago I worked at these 3 houses all lined up in a row. First was a real estate lawyer, NOT a lady to mess with. Second was a Wall Street tycoon type. Third was this little old lady. Wall Street guy moves in, starts causing problems. He made problems with the little old lady, NOT the lawyer.
Now I am not saying that you should kiss this guy's ass because he is a lawyer, however I am saying that you should try to keep it on a friendly basis unless you absolutely have to become hostile about it.
Myself, I am a vindictive SOB. If my neighbor came to me out of the blue with a law suit without first alerting me to the fact that there was a problem, and trying to work it out amicably, I would be pretty friggin mad, and would remember that suit for some time to come.
Who knows? maybe your neighbor is like the lawyer I worked for. She would have strung the culprits up by their balls.

 

[glens]

If your "neighbor" is a lawyer, I'd approach him with the situation and ask him for legal advice.  Not only would that not put him on the defensive, but he might just do everything he can to help you find a remedy in such a way that he can stay out of it apart from his free legal help.

Glen

 

[J-sun]

Re: Tree damage and neighbor

Honestly I would suggest that you speak with your neighbor before going any farther. So far you haven't incurred any real costs. Your neighbor seems like he is friendly enough. I would honestly suggest that you just talk with the guy on a friendly level and take it from there. Why bother ruining that relationship if it doesn't have to be ruined? Who knows? Maybe he will help you fight / find the suckers who caused the damage.

I agree. To clarify, the neighbors are renters, not property owners. We talked to them first, but they were not home when the tree was cut down. We also asked a couple other neighbors just to see if they were home. Then we followed up by contacting the Rental Agency who manages the property and were the one's who hired the tree to be cut. They are now awaiting my request. It is not my intention to go directly to legal matters, only to determine what my best direction is and what my rights are in case there is something I need to do now for the "Just in case" of later that this turns ugly. That's why I'm trying to get good quotes from reputable arborists that will be fair; but also reputable. I am not at all mad at the neighbors, and currently feel the Rental Agency is being cooperative in providing the name of the company they hired.

My questions about the legal side of things is because once I get the quotes from the arborists, I want to be prepared if I am suddenly faced with dispute over the fact that this was caused by the hired company. Plus, if I"m going to pay an arborist now, it may as well be for something that would be legally useful in the unfortunate event that becomes necessary.

I hope that dispells any thoughts out there that I was trying to be unfriendly or combative with the folks that didn't have any control over all this. I just believe in having all the information I can before I proceed with a decision. Especially in something I've never experienced before.

 

[J-sun]

a bit more clarified--neighbor, agency, lawyer

Hmm, should have read all the strings--here to clarify is the ownership, residence scenario.

The folks who live there are renters, one works at a store, the other I"m not sure. They are not lawyers. The home is managed by a rental agency--whom did the tree hiring. They are real estate folks. The land owner is the lawyer. I have never met him in person and think I may have talked to him once a couple years ago, and yes, he was friendly the time I was in contact with him. It is my understanding, however, that he prefers the rental agency handle everything, so for now I just plan to communicate with them. If all goes well, all will be amicable--that is my desire. If the arborists info and my request are agreed with, end of story. If not, I'll go to property owner directly per my own judgement and confirmation by all your advice. The legal side is definitely a last resort for me, it's not my desire nor how I like to operate. Thanks again!

For an update and probably the last string until I get some written info--I have an appt. with an certified arborist who specializes in damage assessment. When I get the info and decide what to ask for, I'll be back to keep you all up to date.

Thanks for all your input, it's been very helpful. Of course, I'm now addicted to this--so I'll check back I'm sure--so feel free to add anything!

 

[newb]

As bad as it looks and as wrong as it was, I believe your next step is to bring the neighbor over and show him what happened. I would be upset with my neighbor if I hired a contractor and they screwed up their property, and he went through the legal channels without ever giving me the chance to make it right. He might not have cut them a check yet and if you talk to him soon enough at minimum you might get that amount. Id give that a try, Pete

 

[glens]

Like I said, get your neighbor (the property owner slash lawyer) to offer his legal advice on the situation.  I'm confident that will get the job done for you.

 

[J-sun]

Contacting the Lawyer owner

So if I understand the advice of most recently, folks think in addition to my communications with the rental agency, I should get in contact with the land owner himself, who is the lawyer. (he doesn't live there, he contracts the rental of the property through a rental agency who then handles all the rental issues).

I wonder, so it doesn't appear I'm stepping the the folks at the rental agency, if I should let them know--that I want to talk to the owner. My guess is the lawyer doesn't even write the check directly for the work. IT's probably the rental agency, but that's another realm I know nothing about. I've never rented from an agency, only directly from the owner.

At any rate, this is probably about as "non-tree" oriented a conversation ever found on this web site!!!

Thanks again, J