Unoxygented blood......Need info

[BostonBull]

I was told at a seminar by Ken Palmer that a lot of guys die up in trees and busckets froim not being rescued fast enough. he said when blood flow is cut off from a body part due to a harness pinching for example. That when you release that pressure/rescue the person all the unoxygenated blood lows to the heart and shuts it down. at the least you get sick with something very similiar to the bends.

Does anyone have any goo sites for info related to this or can anyone further elaborate the causes of death from this?

 

[ShoerFast]

Bosten Bull
I had been to a few seminars on the cause and effects of hypoxia, or altitude sickness. Thats the lack of enoff oxygen.
One of the best anything cures is early diagnosis, but in the case of what your talking about, it sounds more like heart failure by a shock to its system?
Just wandering if at some point before the shock, if there any signs? eg: tingling or numbness?

 

[jp hallman]

Yes, there's something to this. A very good friend crashed his four wheeler while Elk hunting. He was pinned underneath for several hours until being rescued. He ended up convalescing for several weeks. The blood supply was cut off to a few vital organs and he durn near lost his life because of such. Seems the stagnant blood was close to toxic for his system. It's something not to be taken lightly.
Like I said, he lost several weeks of work and was close to death because of the blood starvation.

 

[boo]

You guys should really know this if you are working on a tree crew....look up> "suspension trauma".
Many deaths occur during rescue while a small bit of knowledge can make the difference.
It's a blood flow/flood the heart kinda thing>>> check it out.
Work safe.
Peace.

 

[BostonBull]

boo....thats exactly the term I was looking for that Ken used!!! Thanks a million.

 

[BostonBull]

Guys heres a great short read on Suspension Trauma. Definately worth a look.

 

[ShoerFast]

Bosten Bull
That is a good link, and how many years I had no use for OSHA !
I wonder if a Capillary Response would show slow and weak in the early symptems?
Thats still the best over all early warning test in IMO, it seems the quickest by just squezing a fingernail and counting the time till color returns.

 

[jp hallman]

Good info. Thanks for the thread

 

[highpoint-utd]

here ya go happy reading http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/subject/s/suspensiontrauma.htm

 

[boo]

>>>>>PARENTS

Scared me when I walked back into the house one day and found my baby had fallen asleep in her swing. She was ok, she had only been asleep for a couple of minutes.
I did remind my wife of the possible damage or death that could occur if the baby would have stayed in that position any longer.
I think this should be something that parents should be aware of also, not that I have heard of any deaths related to this for infants, but maybe some have taken place without knowledge.
I'm not going to take any chances. Don't depend on luck on or off of the job.

 

[Diesel JD]

So is this a condition that would only be encountered in an emergency such as waiting to be rescued while suspended froma saddle/fall arresting harness, or is it something the average tree worker or recreational climber needs to watch out for in the course of their work and play?

 

[boo]

Have you ever been standing perfectly still, then all of a sudden feel dizzy or light-headed?
That may have been because all of your blood had gone to your legs. I've read somewhere that the military teaches to stand at attention with the knees slightly bent, to keep pressure on the blood vessels to prevent "falling-out".
I also recall a writing on research done by N.A.S.A., that there is no warning. He said as he was "hanging loose" everything was fine for the 1st five minutes or so, then all of a sudden he was having hot and cold flashes.
Just so happens that the hot and cold flashes were him coming back from spending the last few minutes unconscious, as he then explained the standby medics working on him.

 

[Crofter]

I have taken fall arrest training a half dozen times as part of safety indoctrination and have never had the reasons explained for the need of quick rescue from hanging in a harness. I guess they feel we would demand more assurance about the adequacy of their rescue response. A quick Google shows that it can be a serious threat for sports and work in bosuns chairs, hang gliders etc. Tree workers? probably enough activity and changing positions so maybe not a common problem. This info sure is food for thought. The title of this thread could be different to get more exposure to its message! Moderators; where are you when we need you.

Frank

 

[fpyontek]

Excellent thread, good posts and great link.

I have heard about the effects of sitting for extended periods of time ( long flights ) can be dangerous because blood clots can develop and travel to the heart (pulmonary embolism).
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/thrombosis/
I didn't realize that it applied to all forms of non horizontal immobilization.

If anyone has information on how this applies to infants, please post. My feeling is that because of their small size infants are not subject to this type of problem. Besides, they just spent 9 months in cramped quarters.

Fred

 

[Diesel JD]

I have heard that one ought to get oughta nd stretch every 3 hours or so on any long car trip to avoid blood clots...and yest I have gotten light headed and even fainted before, but not from standing still, from getting up too fast from a seated or lying down position. Also after any kind of trauma...but never from standing or sitting in 1 position.

 

[highpoint-utd]

as i understand it ,it is not a vlood clot that does the damage but a build up of toxins in the lowerhalf of the torso (legs in leg loops and waist belt )stoping the imobile casualties normal circulation.this build up of toxins when released (ie- victim is rescued )is what causes the damage !i was told (cant remember who by) max time for rescue must be under 5 min .i was also told that this syndrome is akin to toxic shock syndrome in women using tampax(and not renewing them frequently).
as an after note if we have two climbers on the job one will always keep his harness on after finishing his work if the other is still in the tree.
a few years ago fujigarma europa (sp) ACTUALLY DESIGNED A KIT FOR PLACING IN EACH TREE BEING WORKED ON WITH A SEPERATE RESCUE ROPE WHICH WAS PLACED WHEN THE CLIMBER REACHED HIS ANCHOR POINT.
one idea would be to leave a piece of zing -it attached in place ready to haul up a rescue line if needs be .

 

[boo]

You guys should really know this if you are working on a tree crew....look up> "suspension trauma".
Many deaths occur during rescue while a small bit of knowledge can make the difference.
It's a blood flow/flood the heart kinda thing>>> check it out.
Work safe.
Peace.

you guys lay off of the tampax, that's a different problem

 

[appalachianarbo]

An article in the New England Journal of Medicine (Mar. 9 2006) reviewed field treatment of extended entrapment crush injuries (picture being pinned under a log for an hour). Along with oxygen adminstration and IV fluids, paramedics (depending on their protocols) are instructed to give 1 amp of sodium bicarbonate along with the saline to neutralize the lactic acid buildup in the stagnant blood. I assume this treatment would work for harness hang syndrome treatment the same way. The keys to survivability are 1) quick rescue and arrival of advanced life support and 2) not relieving the load (or harness pressure) until the sodium bicarb is ready to be administered. But, in some cases, death can take weeks, and usually is caused by a severe infection. In other cases, death can take only minutes.

 

[CaveSaw]

Suspension Trauma

There is some new information out about suspension trauma (or harness hang syndrome or harness induced pathology or orthostatic intolerance). An earlier poster cited OSHA and another cited HSE, the British equivalent of OSHA. HSE did a great summary of suspension trauma and included recommendations to not lay patients down after rescue and not to release their harness. After that they did some more investigation to say there was not evidence to support that and to do standard first aid when bringing someone down after suspension. A couple of independent reviews have come to the same conclusion. OSHA has withdrawn their bulletin about suspension trauma.

HSE - Falls - First aid management for harness suspension

Here is a review on the topic from a non-occupational point of view (okay, I wrote it):

Elsevier

It's not being in a harness that is dangerous. Hanging suspended passively is what's dangerous. If you're alert and working then you're moving your legs and circulating blood well. But if someone gets whacked in the head and is unconscious, get them down ASAP and do standard first aid.