Unless the carb body is 100% aluminum I don't think it is good to use vinegar. I think most carburetors are cast from zinc which will react with acetic acid.
Using ultrasonic cleaner to clean carb
- Thread starter Ax-man
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Right about both the acetic acid in vinegar and Walbro/Zama recommendations:
Here is the type of orifice cleaners I use. They appear to be maybe stainless steel and are really smooth, not like the Oxy/Acetylene torch tip cleaners that will actually enlarge a jet hole and some galvanized tag wires are not smooth on the edges and will enlarge a jet hole.
AND I keep a heads up and do not leave a carb in the Vinegar solution for a extended period of time due to the acetic acid etching and rusting. You can actually see the solution gently removing rust and gunk being dissolved and removed from a object when the ultrasonic starts cleaning.
The marvel mystery or ATF might be good as a final cleaning run after the vinegar for cleaning a carb that is going to be stored for use later, but I've seen no long term affects of the Vinegar acetic solution if I use ATF to lube the carb for storage inside a sealed zip lock bag and I have some carbs that have been stored for years and still good to go when needed. I use Berryman carb cleaner for larger carbs that will not fit into my small ultrasonic tank. I strain the Berryman afterwards and place it back into a good sealed container and it will last for years if careful and not get contaminated with water.
I have noticed that some welch plugs pop out easier (when using low pressure compressed air cleaning) on small carbs after being in a heated solution. I've started placing the small carbs inside a screen cage so as to capture any dislodged small parts. I have a sealant I apply to the still intact welch plugs to re-seal or any I have to re-install or replace. I normally do not remove welch plugs unless the carb is a stubborn one.
flea bay orifice cleaners:
Carb Jet Cleaning Tool Honda Carburetor Wire Cleaner Set Motorcycle 14 WIRES
flea bay number 142244693542
SteveSr
Addicted to ArboristSite
What are you using for welch plug sealant? Both Walbro and Zama stopped using sealant as they couldn't come up with anything that would stand up to ALL fuel additives and especially ethanol. You can find plenty of horror stories on this forum to back this up.
Right about Welch plug sealing.
I normally do not use any type of sealer on welch plugs UNLESS the carb is not coming around and I suspect maybe could be welch plug not sealing or every once in awhile I have to drill a small hole in a welch plug for removal and re-use the same plug. I have a Brownells Acraglas gel (epoxy) that works great for me. (on the outside after the plug is installed)
You can review on-line and see you tube videos of how to use and how to use the release agent to keep it from going where you do not want it to stick. It's about consistency of margarine and easily controlled. You can store the release agent in a fridge a get longer storage time. (the release agent will eventually evaporate because it's alcohol based) I sometimes use car wax or the type of shoe wax polish that is in a small can as a release agent. (release agent keeps it from sticking to for example a bolt that you want to remove after the epoxy has dried. If subjected to some residual heat like 120 degrees it will dry in 3-4 hours, if cold may take up to 48 hours to cure.
Their are two types a GREEN/white box and a Red/white box.
The Green/white is the gel. You can mix aluminum grinding grit or steel grinding grit with the epoxy for a stronger bond. I sometimes mix aluminum grit if I want more strength. Steel grit will rust.
The epoxy will store forever. If you open up the two containers and it's not smooth due to age just heat some water and place the container in warm water so as the water warms only the plastic container and when it softens start slowly stirring and until it comes back to butter smooth before mixing equal parts. Don't get water in the plastic container and be careful and don't cross contaminate the containers when stirring. It's 10 times better than JB weld.
If you will keep tabs on it as it's drying you can easily trim off the excess or use dampness on your finger and smooth it to glass smooth. After the epoxy dries it has to be heated or ground off for removal.
Takes heat from a torch to soften it for removal.
If you desire to smooth or trim any as it's drying let it slow cure until you have done your thing, because residual heat will sometimes cure it while you are doing other things.
I use couple sets of the cheap plastic kitchen measuring spoons from 1/8 teaspoon up to mix small equal amounts.
Amounts must be exact 50/50 for good hard cure.
Very handy stuff to have around if you are a piddler and repair things.
backhoelover
Free service manuals and service tool info
I set mint @ 125f. And use the polident or ultra sonic cleaner from flea bay. I've had one from us general and didn't like it. Last one was from aldi grocery store and now I have a 3 liter
Cheaper and hell of a lot stronger
Cheaper and hell of a lot stronger
Nail polish is frequently mentioned for sealing welch plugs as is Indian Head shellac.
SteveSr
Addicted to ArboristSite
It may have been mentioned (and used) a long time ago but it won't hold up to current gas additives including ethanol.
Both are still used and considered to be effective solutions (relatively speaking) by many. Super Glue, Seal All, Epoxies, on it goes. Indian Head is a known solution that needs time to harden/cure as they all do. Some just longer than others and presumably why some folks have had mixed results due to not allowing enough time before exposing the carb to fuel. Nail polish is a crap shoot depending on its composition, though I have used it successfully and coincidentally happen to be staring at a saw from a tree service I used it on three years ago. Welch plug still intact. Impulse hose cracked (which was part of its original problem as well as the loose welch plug). That said, a welch plug shouldn't need to be sealed anyway unless it's defective, it's seat is deformed, it's NLA, is a quick fix, or simply doesn't fit tightly enough right out of a fresh carb kit.
And as for fuel additives and ethanol eventually winning out over a welch plug seal job done with any number sealants, the same holds true for diaphragms, plastic check valves, fuel lines, etc.
Sorta presents a paradox of sorts...
If ethanol can eat welch plug glues and sealers, why don't we just us it in our USC's to clean out the rest of the crap in our carbs? Oh yeah, those cheesy little plastic check valves. LOL
Good tech note here on welch plugs that's been posted before. I believe credit should go to backhoelover for the original post.
And as for fuel additives and ethanol eventually winning out over a welch plug seal job done with any number sealants, the same holds true for diaphragms, plastic check valves, fuel lines, etc.
Sorta presents a paradox of sorts...
If ethanol can eat welch plug glues and sealers, why don't we just us it in our USC's to clean out the rest of the crap in our carbs? Oh yeah, those cheesy little plastic check valves. LOL
Good tech note here on welch plugs that's been posted before. I believe credit should go to backhoelover for the original post.
LegDeLimber
Addicted to ArboristSite
De-burring (less than perfect looking) welch plugs before installing them
Does a lot for avoiding leakers.
You also need to look at the diaphragms and gaskets for rough edges
or dingle berries, before installing them.
Does a lot for avoiding leakers.
You also need to look at the diaphragms and gaskets for rough edges
or dingle berries, before installing them.
Ax-man
Addicted to ArboristSite
I know this is an old thread . I would like to add a comment or two because I finally got around to using my u s cleaner . About time because this thread is over a year old and the 036 that started this thread had another problem other than the carb and got that fixed and the saw didn't need the carb work done to it hence the us cleaner didn't get used.
I have a 361 that has always been a temperamental to get started but once it got going it ran fine. I put the saw up because I wasn't going to use it for awhile and drained the gas out of it . I went to use the saw again and the darn thing wouldn't start no matter what I did . I took the carb apart and used the US cleaner with just water and dish soap to see if that would do the trick . Same results non running saw so I drained the gas out and shelved it figuring it had other problems and left it for another day to see what the problem might be. I also felt that I had wasted my money on the US cleaner because I didn't get the same results like others do using a US cleaner.
So much for the 361, now I decide to get one of 066 going to cut firewood. My heart sank when I went to put gas in it , I had left fuel in it and I hadn't used the saw for over a year and had the same thing happen it wouldn't start no matter what I did to get it going. I decided to get into the carb and fuel lines to see what damage was done . Every thing looked good inside the carb the only thing I could find was a partially blocked screen and a dirty inlet needle seat . Got this problem fixed , put the carb back together but the darn saw still wouldn't start no matter what I did.
I decided to give the US cleaner one more try only this time I did things different . First I dipped this 066 carb body minus the gaskets ,fuel needles and fuel inlet needle into a dip of lacquer thinner for about 20 minutes. While the carb was soaking I got the US cleaner going preheating the water and put it at it's highest setting for the timer. While the carb was in the lacquer thinner dip I moved it up and down and twirled it around to move the solvent through the carb body kind of like a mini whirlpool bath for a carb body. After the lacquer thinner dip I sprayed it down with brake cleaner and then I put the carb body into the pre heated US cleaner with just water and the results were like night and day . I could see the results of the cleaner at work a cloudy film was coming out of the inside of the carb. I added some dish soap for good measure and ran the cleaner for about a half hour. I could tell when the cleaner was done because the cloudy film wasn't coming out f the carb body.
I then removed the carb sprayed it down with WD 40 , then sprayed it down with brake cleaner followed by fuel mix from a spray bottle. I then blew out the passages with an air pump that you would use to do a pressure /vac test. Put the carb back together and back on the saw . I was amazed with the results , The 066 saw was running after four pulls and sounded much better than I remember. I got that 361 off the shelf and did the same thing with it's carb and the results were the same . That saw fired right up and ran better than it did before.
After running both saws for awhile to make sure no water was left in the carb I let them sit overnight to see if they would start the next day . Both saws fired right up quite easily I might add. Cut some wood with the 361 and it performed much better than it had previously. The 066 will get a work out later. I am sure it will do good because after you have worked on saws for awhile you can just tell by the starting and how they sound if they are running the way they should and this one sounds real good.
I know this is a long post and I am leaving out details about this latest go round of saw fixing but I wished I had done this on other saws using the US cleaner because it might have saved me some time and aggravation trying to fix other saws especially the older ones I worked on in the past. I don't know for sure if that lacquer thinner pre dip , followed by the bath in the US cleaner made the difference but it sure made a believer out of me using the US cleaner to save carbs.
I have a 361 that has always been a temperamental to get started but once it got going it ran fine. I put the saw up because I wasn't going to use it for awhile and drained the gas out of it . I went to use the saw again and the darn thing wouldn't start no matter what I did . I took the carb apart and used the US cleaner with just water and dish soap to see if that would do the trick . Same results non running saw so I drained the gas out and shelved it figuring it had other problems and left it for another day to see what the problem might be. I also felt that I had wasted my money on the US cleaner because I didn't get the same results like others do using a US cleaner.
So much for the 361, now I decide to get one of 066 going to cut firewood. My heart sank when I went to put gas in it , I had left fuel in it and I hadn't used the saw for over a year and had the same thing happen it wouldn't start no matter what I did to get it going. I decided to get into the carb and fuel lines to see what damage was done . Every thing looked good inside the carb the only thing I could find was a partially blocked screen and a dirty inlet needle seat . Got this problem fixed , put the carb back together but the darn saw still wouldn't start no matter what I did.
I decided to give the US cleaner one more try only this time I did things different . First I dipped this 066 carb body minus the gaskets ,fuel needles and fuel inlet needle into a dip of lacquer thinner for about 20 minutes. While the carb was soaking I got the US cleaner going preheating the water and put it at it's highest setting for the timer. While the carb was in the lacquer thinner dip I moved it up and down and twirled it around to move the solvent through the carb body kind of like a mini whirlpool bath for a carb body. After the lacquer thinner dip I sprayed it down with brake cleaner and then I put the carb body into the pre heated US cleaner with just water and the results were like night and day . I could see the results of the cleaner at work a cloudy film was coming out of the inside of the carb. I added some dish soap for good measure and ran the cleaner for about a half hour. I could tell when the cleaner was done because the cloudy film wasn't coming out f the carb body.
I then removed the carb sprayed it down with WD 40 , then sprayed it down with brake cleaner followed by fuel mix from a spray bottle. I then blew out the passages with an air pump that you would use to do a pressure /vac test. Put the carb back together and back on the saw . I was amazed with the results , The 066 saw was running after four pulls and sounded much better than I remember. I got that 361 off the shelf and did the same thing with it's carb and the results were the same . That saw fired right up and ran better than it did before.
After running both saws for awhile to make sure no water was left in the carb I let them sit overnight to see if they would start the next day . Both saws fired right up quite easily I might add. Cut some wood with the 361 and it performed much better than it had previously. The 066 will get a work out later. I am sure it will do good because after you have worked on saws for awhile you can just tell by the starting and how they sound if they are running the way they should and this one sounds real good.
I know this is a long post and I am leaving out details about this latest go round of saw fixing but I wished I had done this on other saws using the US cleaner because it might have saved me some time and aggravation trying to fix other saws especially the older ones I worked on in the past. I don't know for sure if that lacquer thinner pre dip , followed by the bath in the US cleaner made the difference but it sure made a believer out of me using the US cleaner to save carbs.
panolo
Seldom right...Always opinionated!
I used shellac buster from Sharpertek in both of our shops US cleaners. It does tarnish brass a bit but after 63 different products tried over a few years I found it broke stuff up and cleaned the best. Last's forever and if your heat dissipates some off you can fill with water.
You were lucky with the lacquer thinner as it has the potential to dissolve plastics and adhesives which include internal check valves and welch plug sealants. A better bet would be Seafoam or carb cleaner for the pre-soak, but a 50/50 mix of water and Pine-Sol in the usc usually works for me followed by a plain water rinse and gentle air dry with the compressor on very low pressure. That said, I'm also interested in the Sharpertek stuff now since I don't recall ever hearing about it before.
Ax-man
Addicted to ArboristSite
I hear you . I thought about that after I dipped the carbs which is why I only let them sit in that lacquer thinner for a short time. I did test air test those carbs before putting them back on the saws to see if they had been damaged . They passed the air test but only time will tell if any damage was done by doing what I did.
Aluminum and US are tough. Its hard to get the US to really clean something without a cleaner, but non anodized aluminum will get eroded away with too acidic of a mixture in the US. Even with just DI water a lot of aluminum is soft enough to be damaged by the US. US cleaners work due to cavitation, the little air bubbles form and then vigorously implode, when cavitation happens in a pump or similar it'll even pit steel. In the US the cavitation is much less aggressive but it will still damage softer metals, non anodized aluminum is generally fine unless you use an acidic cleaner.
so i bought a carb off ebay the picture it looked nice. and when i got it the thing is all black and kind of rough an powdery. it has clearly been left is some kind of solution for too long. the question is now what. i can wire brush the outside and it cleans right up and looks like it should. im concerned about all the passage ways and interna moving parts
One of the best tips I saw on the University of Youtube came from Steve's Small Engine Saloon. I had always been troubled about using any solvent other than water in the ultrasonic cleaner, because of safety concerns. Steve suggested the following: fill your ultrasonic bath between 50 and 70% with water. Then use the solvent of your choice (gasoline; thinners; paraffin (kerosene); Clean Green etc.) by placing it and the item to be cleaned into a lidded plastic jar with a wide neck. The vibrations pass easily through the plastic, and the vapour is contained in the plastic jar. The bonus is that you don't stink up your workshop, or have to clean nasty solvents out of your cleaner. I've been doing this for about 2 years now without a problem.
You can now store your 3 or 4 containers on the shelf, sealed and ready for future use! Genius solution!
Thanks, Steve!!
You can now store your 3 or 4 containers on the shelf, sealed and ready for future use! Genius solution!
Thanks, Steve!!
Carbs that have been in a vinegar or vinegar water mix of 50/50 will turn black and powdery as you describe if the vinegar which is a acid is not neutralized by using just little bit of baking powder in water over the carb or part after you remove it from the US. Some small carbs will feel oily and if allowed to air dry will start turning black and then powdery. (acid is still eating on the carb)
If really powdery the carb may not be useable again due to small orifices too large etc.
I use a 50/50 mix of vinegar and water and heated to approx 160F (hot enough that the water or cleaning solution temp is uncomfortable to the touch WHEN THE UNIT IS OFF)
Different material require different type of cleaning solutions.
Some small carbs if left too long or cycled to much in a US can be ruined, small check valves are still inside some carbs and will be ruined and now days some small carbs can be replaced for the price of a maybe kit.
1ST I review the price and availability of a kit and also a replacement carb.
I know then how careful I need to be and how much effort I need to use re-storing the carb.
When doing a chainsaw carb or a small engine I sometimes run one through a preheated US for about 20-30min's, then do a low pressure blow dry, then use carb cleaning tips or tag wire through the small jet holes, then squirt some carb cleaner through the jet holes and sometimes re-assemble with the same gaskets as a test if the gaskets and diaphragms still seem to have some life in them.
To see if your US is maybe operating OK place a rusty nail and corroded piece of aluminum in the US solution and you should see the rust start releasing or the aluminum changing color and maybe even little bit of gray color around the aluminum.
Some carbs are just not going to come around.
I've saved lots of old carbs and not even have to install a kit by running them through a US before I try taking them apart so as to soften the gaskets and loosen the screws that are rusted galled into the aluminum/zinc body. I knew that the carb was going to be a trashed/lost cause if not cleaned first and nothing really lost.
