I am asking elementary questions here, I know, but what are some good sizes of wedges to start out with? Aluminum, plastic/nylon, or iron? Sorry, but I have never used a wedge before. I usually notch, and drop.
ZH
ZH
Wedges?
- Thread starter zh farms
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Plastic 5.5" and 8" are good to start with. Play around with them and see what they can do for you. The short ones are also nice for dropping in the kerf when bucking to keep the kerf from closing up.
PA Plumber
Addicted to ArboristSite
I started out with the 7 1/2" or 8" yellow ones from Bailey's. They had the ridges/guides which made it nice for stacking.
Over the last while, I have really gotten to like the green 10 inchers from Bailey's. They stack nicely and are reasonably priced. They clean up well when nicked with a chain saw or get busted up with a rafting ax.
The following picture shows one that is pretty rough and the others I have cleaned up with a reciprocating saw. I even use these to fell small diameter trees and they stack pretty well.
Just watch out when they get a little snow in between and the trees are frozen!
Over the last while, I have really gotten to like the green 10 inchers from Bailey's. They stack nicely and are reasonably priced. They clean up well when nicked with a chain saw or get busted up with a rafting ax.
The following picture shows one that is pretty rough and the others I have cleaned up with a reciprocating saw. I even use these to fell small diameter trees and they stack pretty well.
Just watch out when they get a little snow in between and the trees are frozen!
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Depends I prefer steel for large hardwood trees and trees needing driven
a bit further as I don't care to stack wedges! They both have advantages
and I have several of each but my winch is better than any of my wedges
and it comes in if property is at stake.
a bit further as I don't care to stack wedges! They both have advantages
and I have several of each but my winch is better than any of my wedges
and it comes in if property is at stake.
You will need both plastic and steel. Plastic for using around the saw, steel for splitting blocks that are already cut. Steel also for falling if you are going to have to really hammer them but there is a danger of hitting them with the saw.
For the steel wedges, shop a couple second hand/pawn shops. They will be cheaper, and likely better quality - almost certainly will require dressing.
I carry 4 plastic (2 long Husky, 2 short unknown brand), and 4 steel.
Harry K
For the steel wedges, shop a couple second hand/pawn shops. They will be cheaper, and likely better quality - almost certainly will require dressing.
I carry 4 plastic (2 long Husky, 2 short unknown brand), and 4 steel.
Harry K
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NDtreehugger
ArboristSite Guru
I never have paid for a wedge
I just get that chain going
thick thin long, short, yup just a cut away.
I just get that chain going
thick thin long, short, yup just a cut away.
Rookie1
Addicted to ArboristSite
I just get that chain going
thick thin long, short, yup just a cut away.
I love it. Do you use your chainsaw or make in a wood shop. Very cool.
Butch(OH)
Addicted to ArboristSite
I never owned a plastic wedge until two years ago and now I wouldnt want to be without at least two when ever I go to the woods. Aside from the obvious felling use when bucking large stuff they keep you from getting pinched and you can actualy lift the cut right up out of the dirt if you drive them in tight. Heck of a lot easier than cutting part way through and trying to roll a 1 ton or heavier log around to cut the rest. Same thing can be done with iron wedges but I cant sem to stay away from my wedges with the saw
Iron wedges are just for splitting aound here since I discovered plastic.
Iron wedges are just for splitting aound here since I discovered plastic.
NDtreehugger
ArboristSite Guru
I cut them with the chainsaw
then when its time to clean the saw I sand & oil the wedges
then when its time to clean the saw I sand & oil the wedges
ive never used a wedge to fell a tree just to split them when the maul wouldnt do it alone. i have a splitting wedge i never use. do the wedges reall make a difference in felling? ive always been pretty good at gettin them to land where i want em to just by notching etc.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Yes they make a huge differance but should
not be relied on near property or powerlines
even though they are very reliable.
Butch(OH)
Addicted to ArboristSite
I am no pro at felling but I can make them fall the way they are leaning,:greenchainsaw:
Seriously I used to let them all fall the way they leaned and suffer the extra work cutting and loading. When I was shown how to use a felling wedge at the Bunyan show a few years ago I bought some. It is no tick to bring the slight leaners "over backwards: with a wedge and lots of time that means falling a tree wear I can back right up to it and cut and load instead of carrying the wood out of briars or up a creek bank. I wouldn't use a wedge to drop a tree that would otherwise fall on something important like my house but in the woods I consider them to be indispensable now.
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
Stacking
Wedges that are designed to stack are not a good idea.
Reason; Two wedges that are placed at an angle of up to 90 degrees drive better than those that are placed directly on top.
Reason for that; Less friction with driving and wait, if you order now there is more. The tip ends will be bent slightly as they overlap and they will hold better. All this for only $___________.
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Actually; Most of the stacking wedges can still be used at an angle, the ribs just are faced away from each other. Also dirt or chips placed on a wedge(s) will almost prevent wedge popping on the 8 inch and especially longer wedges.
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Please consider aluminum and magnesium instead of steel. I don't think they are as susceptible to throwing fragments as the steel.
Please consider the longer gentler taper wedges. They can drive a tree that a shorter steeper one cannot.
Also consider having several wedges so that you can place them side by side.
Picture a tree that has a lot of weight to lift. But you're prepared and have 4 wedges of the same size side by side and you hit one then the next and just move back and forth and they work as a team where one or two wouldn't do the job.
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If you're having problems with any wedge technique look at the top. You might be hitting on the backswing and wasting your time and the wedges lifespan (mushrooming).
---------------------
Picture Norm Abrahms as a faller. His show the New Yankee Timber Fallers would start off with a safety "There is no more important ...."
It would mention a lot of safety gear but when he gets to wedging there would be a look up discussion. When you introduce vibration into a tree that is a time for widowmakers to kick free and come at you. There is a tendency of some of the green tree falling training programs to ignore hazards from above until the tree starts over.
Be safe with wedge pounding too.
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Wedge from the rear, more efficient, safer (less chance of breaking the hinge) and in some instances less chance of damaging the wedge tip.
All the Best
Wedges that are designed to stack are not a good idea.
Reason; Two wedges that are placed at an angle of up to 90 degrees drive better than those that are placed directly on top.
Reason for that; Less friction with driving and wait, if you order now there is more. The tip ends will be bent slightly as they overlap and they will hold better. All this for only $___________.
-----------------
Actually; Most of the stacking wedges can still be used at an angle, the ribs just are faced away from each other. Also dirt or chips placed on a wedge(s) will almost prevent wedge popping on the 8 inch and especially longer wedges.
-----------------
Please consider aluminum and magnesium instead of steel. I don't think they are as susceptible to throwing fragments as the steel.
Please consider the longer gentler taper wedges. They can drive a tree that a shorter steeper one cannot.
Also consider having several wedges so that you can place them side by side.
Picture a tree that has a lot of weight to lift. But you're prepared and have 4 wedges of the same size side by side and you hit one then the next and just move back and forth and they work as a team where one or two wouldn't do the job.
-------------------
If you're having problems with any wedge technique look at the top. You might be hitting on the backswing and wasting your time and the wedges lifespan (mushrooming).
---------------------
Picture Norm Abrahms as a faller. His show the New Yankee Timber Fallers would start off with a safety "There is no more important ...."
It would mention a lot of safety gear but when he gets to wedging there would be a look up discussion. When you introduce vibration into a tree that is a time for widowmakers to kick free and come at you. There is a tendency of some of the green tree falling training programs to ignore hazards from above until the tree starts over.
Be safe with wedge pounding too.
---------------------
Wedge from the rear, more efficient, safer (less chance of breaking the hinge) and in some instances less chance of damaging the wedge tip.
All the Best
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
The dark side of wedging
At first you will be enticed by the plastic shorter steeper wedges.
They really want to pop out when smacked in greater resistance situations. That would be harder wood and fighting more of a lean.
Possible aid in this situation is have two of those wedges side by side. If one does pop you are far less likely to have an emergency.
---------------------
The metal wedges drive better. They really lift about double the weight of an equivalent plastic. But you need about a two layer eye protection system just in case and they do not stack well at any angle. Metal slides on metal even with textured surfaces.
Metal wedges do hold in a tree far better by themselves. I think this is because metal wedges really sink in when you hit them hard.
{Now think teamwork by a diversified 'American Society'. Metal wedge(s) side by side gets the tree more upright to a point of lesser resistance(all that fulcrum stuff). Then longer angle stacked plastic wedges finish the job. I've actually done that twice knowing and understanding what was happening and walked away from the trees feeling like I deserved my suspenders.}
This last statement should tell you I'm not a full time feller.
Go out there young man. Get yourself one of dem der trees that whatever plastic wedge and wedging techniques you are using just will not get the job done. You know what I'm talking about! Now take out one of your wedges and put in a metal wedge and get 'er over.
------------------
You can make wood wedges in the field. You will generally need a wider kerf (to put them in)or softer wood (tree wood). They perform poorly and should be considered as a back up only. The store bought wood wedges are not much better.
----------------
Lots of West Coast cutters really prefer the wider ga chains as they make wedging easier. Even if you're still back at 50 ga you can widen the kerf by re-cutting from the inside out with a little tilt pressure on the bar to widen just a portion of the back-cut only a smidgeon. In those difficult to wedge/start a wedge spots this can be the cats meow.
At first you will be enticed by the plastic shorter steeper wedges.
They really want to pop out when smacked in greater resistance situations. That would be harder wood and fighting more of a lean.
Possible aid in this situation is have two of those wedges side by side. If one does pop you are far less likely to have an emergency.
---------------------
The metal wedges drive better. They really lift about double the weight of an equivalent plastic. But you need about a two layer eye protection system just in case and they do not stack well at any angle. Metal slides on metal even with textured surfaces.
Metal wedges do hold in a tree far better by themselves. I think this is because metal wedges really sink in when you hit them hard.
{Now think teamwork by a diversified 'American Society'. Metal wedge(s) side by side gets the tree more upright to a point of lesser resistance(all that fulcrum stuff). Then longer angle stacked plastic wedges finish the job. I've actually done that twice knowing and understanding what was happening and walked away from the trees feeling like I deserved my suspenders.}
This last statement should tell you I'm not a full time feller.
Go out there young man. Get yourself one of dem der trees that whatever plastic wedge and wedging techniques you are using just will not get the job done. You know what I'm talking about! Now take out one of your wedges and put in a metal wedge and get 'er over.
------------------
You can make wood wedges in the field. You will generally need a wider kerf (to put them in)or softer wood (tree wood). They perform poorly and should be considered as a back up only. The store bought wood wedges are not much better.
----------------
Lots of West Coast cutters really prefer the wider ga chains as they make wedging easier. Even if you're still back at 50 ga you can widen the kerf by re-cutting from the inside out with a little tilt pressure on the bar to widen just a portion of the back-cut only a smidgeon. In those difficult to wedge/start a wedge spots this can be the cats meow.
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Zodiac45
Paleostoveologist & Sawwhisperer
I agree with Butch,
I use plastic wedges exclusivly for falling/bucking and iron only for splitting. The thing with using wedges for falling is more of a safety issue. Yes It's possible too drop tree where you want just by proper notching/facing and backcutting. But if there's any question, like the tree might sit back on you, or just you just want plenty of hinge and a controlled fall then wedges are perfect. You can set the saw down and just pound the tree over versus the sawing till it starts too move and only having seconds too clear out.
PS: get yourself a 8" and 10" for starters.
I use plastic wedges exclusivly for falling/bucking and iron only for splitting. The thing with using wedges for falling is more of a safety issue. Yes It's possible too drop tree where you want just by proper notching/facing and backcutting. But if there's any question, like the tree might sit back on you, or just you just want plenty of hinge and a controlled fall then wedges are perfect. You can set the saw down and just pound the tree over versus the sawing till it starts too move and only having seconds too clear out.
PS: get yourself a 8" and 10" for starters.
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Burvol
Bullbuck
Smokechase, I agree, but respectfully disagree. You might be trying to be too technical. I know your seasoned and a lot older than me, but stacking wedges is a fact of life for a faller if you have to wedge a hard leaner. There is a way (it takes a longgg time to get it right) stack and hit wedges correctly so that they do not shoot out, or freeze up. Yes, you are right on the money...having side by side stacks is crucial as well. Being patient for the vibaration to go up and come down fully is what really makes it work on bigger timber. As far as hazard trees in a strip, I choose to either drive them out with another tree (if they are that bad), or lay them out where they can go with out a wedge and shotgun the middle of the mess. Those trees you speak of are bad news to wegde. I cut a ton of those last year in Vinemaple 30 feet tall. I got the picture real quick. I had a top hit a tiny, tiny, limb, bust, cartwheel down 100 feet and tear the shirt off my back on damn near vertical ground. Preping is key...Just the way I was trained by a 30 year respected pro.
zh farms, one more wedge tip - Don't ever use a splitting maul as a wedge & drive it with a sledge hammer or another maul - Reason being the hardness of the faces are the same, one or the other can blow a chunk of steel out big enough to really maim someone. I heard one let go once, guy had a maul stuck in a chunk of wood, was driving it with a sledge. Corner of the maul blew out, sounded like a bullet ricocheting off a rock.
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
My story and I'm sticking to it
Burvol:
There is a fairly good chance you've done more serious falling than I have at least from the perspective of quantity. So your respect reference is nice but that needs to go both ways.
Thanks
-----------
The Faller that finally taught me, (circa 1991 or 92), the angled wedge thing is John Pollman. I and my cohorts do have a huge amount of respect for him.
I had been told about it before but he is the guy who made an impression.
I have had two trees where we were not able to get them over with conventional vertical stacking side by side stuff. Then I did the angled stack and got them over and John's teaching made me look sharp. This is pretty rare.
{Since then I haven't had the opportunity to do this comparison as I go for angled stacked as first choice.}
What that taught me, in combination with being taught by someone who I admire, was that even on trees where angled wedges are not required is that they are a good option. Reason, less work because of their effectiveness.
---------------
I'm sticking to angled stacked wedges, if space available, as a good idea when stacking is required.
Burvol:
There is a fairly good chance you've done more serious falling than I have at least from the perspective of quantity. So your respect reference is nice but that needs to go both ways.
Thanks
-----------
The Faller that finally taught me, (circa 1991 or 92), the angled wedge thing is John Pollman. I and my cohorts do have a huge amount of respect for him.
I had been told about it before but he is the guy who made an impression.
I have had two trees where we were not able to get them over with conventional vertical stacking side by side stuff. Then I did the angled stack and got them over and John's teaching made me look sharp. This is pretty rare.
{Since then I haven't had the opportunity to do this comparison as I go for angled stacked as first choice.}
What that taught me, in combination with being taught by someone who I admire, was that even on trees where angled wedges are not required is that they are a good option. Reason, less work because of their effectiveness.
---------------
I'm sticking to angled stacked wedges, if space available, as a good idea when stacking is required.
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smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
Mike Van makes a good point
I hadn't thought of that.
It brings up another point.
Having a good falling axe if you take wedging seriously.
At the Redmond Fire Cache they are excessing the 2 1/4 pound 'little boy' falling axes. They were getting rid of about 150 of them and yes they are actually called little boy axes.
They were probably put in the saw kits years ago because of cost and weight savings. Not good.
You need a 4 pound head falling axe with a decently long handle.
------------
It doesn't speak well that we hadn't made this correction many years ago.
I hadn't thought of that.
It brings up another point.
Having a good falling axe if you take wedging seriously.
At the Redmond Fire Cache they are excessing the 2 1/4 pound 'little boy' falling axes. They were getting rid of about 150 of them and yes they are actually called little boy axes.
They were probably put in the saw kits years ago because of cost and weight savings. Not good.
You need a 4 pound head falling axe with a decently long handle.
------------
It doesn't speak well that we hadn't made this correction many years ago.
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