What happens to cut off roots?

[wysiwyg]

I am currently in the process of replacing a concrete floor in an outbuilding. One of the major failures of the floor in the back of the building was due to a 3" diameter root of a chinese elm locate about 20 feet behind the building. I cut the root off as close to the foundation as possible (see picture). What will happen to this root? Will it die or try to grow again underneath the floor? Is there anything I can spot treat the wound with to keep it from regrowing? TIA

Edit: The foundation is a single layer of cinder blocks. The root grew under the block and then up, buckling the floor. The old floor was only about 1" of poorly mixed concrete, the new floor will be 4" of steel reinforced redimix, if it matters.

 

[rb_in_va]

I was wondering the same thing. My father in law has a large oak tree (probably 28" diameter) right next to a sidewalk, and over the years the walk has lifted quite a bit. I suggested putting in a stone path, but he is indecisive. What are the options?

 

[treeseer]

What will happen to this root? Will it die or try to grow again underneath the floor?

It'll regrow.

Is there anything I can spot treat the wound with to keep it from regrowing?

Nothing that won't hurt the tree.

the new floor will be 4" of steel reinforced redimix, if it matters.

It matters a lot; hard to buckle that stuff. Still, this November I'd trace that root back towards the trunk and sever it (and any others heading in that direction) a few feet further back.

"over the years the walk has lifted quite a bit. I suggested putting in a stone path, but he is indecisive. What are the options?"

I'd suggest asphalt ramping, per the attached pic. Cheap and effective. If the tree is near vabch, I'd recommend that he hire an arborist out to look at the whole tree. pm me if interested; I'll be seeing the mil there next month.

The below was in the last isasc newsletter:
SIDEWALK STRATEGIES


Reducing Infrastructure Damage by Tree Roots: A Compendium of Strategies was recently released by the International Society of Arboriculture. It was authored by University of California Cooperative Extension’s Larry Costello, who also wrote last year’s excellent Abiotic Disorders of Landscape Plants. Many strategies for resolving conflicts between mature trees and sidewalks, creatively merging the green infrastructure with the gray, are detailed in this book. In order of impact they are:

1. Remove old panels. Install a new sidewalk of packed stone, asphalt, pervious concrete or concrete curved away from buttress roots. (If concrete, reinforce with fiberglass rebar, wire mesh, or standard rebar)
2. Remove old panels. Bridge buttress roots with packed structural soil and sand under fabric. Install sections of recycled rubber, asphalt, bricks, pavers, pervious concrete or concrete above.
3. Leave heaved sidewalk in place and make the surface smoother by either
grinding down the lifted edges, making asphalt or concrete wedges or
ramps, or both.
4. Remove old panels, prune roots, and install new panels at original grade.

This last option is still commonly done in North Carolina, with predictable results. Several historic trees in one town died soon after having major roots pruned. One root-pruned maple tree in another town toppled over and crushed a vehicle and its driver. It is clear that this treatment often shortens the safe useful life of trees. It’s time to find a better way.

Strategies #1-3 are ADA-compliant and often cost little more than #4. If you factor in tree removal and replacement expense, not to mention liability exposure, they cost far less. Specific engineering details and case studies are clearly presented, along with a list of material suppliers. Reducing Infrastructure Damage by Tree Roots is a goal we can all agree on, so this book is an important new tool for urban foresters. You can order it via www.isa-arbor.com or call 217-355-9411.

The book’s author spoke at the annual meeting of the American Society of Consulting Arborists earlier this month. He told us that he is planning a second edition, and looking for input. Anyone who has experience with these issues is encouraged to pass it along, for possible addition to the next edition.

Guy Meilleur
Better Tree Care

 

[rb_in_va]

I suggested something like this.

 

[treeseer]

Lexus or Hyundai?

rb, that is definitely an attractive, tree-friendly option, for those with a bigger budget.
#1 consideration as always is to find out the condition of the tree, to see if it's worth the work to preserve it, and what other care can be given to help it thrive.
#2 is to be ultra-careful that the removal of the concrete will not damage the tree. no machine compaction, immediate covering of exposed roots, etc.
The ramping strategy is more for folks with very little $ to spend.

 

[rb_in_va]

Wait til I can get a pic of the sidewalk. You will see why the walk needs replaced.

 

[Ekka]

wysiwyg

Those Chinese elms are notorious for their roots, highly invasive.

I would suggest that the other side of that construction you put down root barrier.

They cut a long narrow slot and slide in sheeting, the roots are cut and even if they try to regrow ... they won't be heading towards the outbuilding.

And that was a pretty neat cut you did, most likely on that species it will regrow under the right conditions ... get root barrier ... it's like a guarantee.

 

[treeseer]

it will regrow under the right conditions ... get root barrier ... it's like a guarantee.

Ekka, you'd have to lay this stuff as deep as China (or in your case, Brazil?) for a guarantee to hold. All I've read and seen shows that roots keep growing in the direction they're oriented. They go under, over and around barriers, returning to the surface where the O2 is and growing ever outward.

Do you use fabric barriers with the chemicals in them (biobarrier), or solid or what?

 

[Ekka]

Don't know anything about bio barriers etc, fill me in.

We get like a thick plastic flexible sheet, comes 300mm, 600mm 900mm etc.

They cut a slot about 1/4" wide (which cuts the roots) and bang it in to the desire depth. On this species I would go the 900mm deep.

Remembering that 99% of the roots are in the top 300mm of soil it's quite improbable that roots this far from the tree (20') would go down 900mm where there's a savage lack of air, water & nutrient ... grow underneath the barrier then head back up.

I would agree that with this species the roots may try to go over the top but at least that's visible and can be dealt with easy.

 

[treeseer]

Don't know anything about bio barriers etc, fill me in.
* www.biobarrier.com

Remembering that 99% of the roots are in the top 300mm of soil
* THis may be generally true about feeder roots, but...

it's quite improbable that roots this far from the tree (20') would go down 900mm where there's a savage lack of air, water & nutrient ... grow underneath the barrier then head back up.
* Big elm roots can easily go down 1m, especially when they're forced to. Elms are good urban trees because they're adapted to low O2.
I agree, the barrier you describe may be quite effective, but just give the tree time...Guarantees are chancy to give.

 

[Ekka]

Yeah that bio barrier stuff's the go, bang that in, no little new roots around those cuts.

Hey Treeseer, I reckon I'd be dead before that customer could collect for those elm roots penetrating the barrier (notice the wording)... but to be safe I'd put 10 years on it, you can go the 1200mm deep one ... that'll really slow it down.

I think it would be the best action to take in this instance, but over here we hardly ever do it! People just cut the tree down in 99% of cases. Chinese elm is on our weed list, a killem free for all.

 

[treeseer]

People just cut the tree down in 99% of cases.

Reminds you of what they say about the baby and the bathwater, doesn't it? because roots are out of sight, they seem to drive people out of their minds; that or they just don't want to get their hands dirty.

If we feel ok about pruning branches, we should feel ok about pruning roots.

 

[Ekka]

You know Treeseer it's a funny thing.

The more educated you get the more frustrated you get without being able to do all those "other things".

There just doesn't seem to be the market over here. I'd like to do a few treatments, some air injection, formative pruning, hazard reduction, write reports etc but you'd starve!

It's like the wild west over here, flamin take downs and lop off the top 1/2 will ya mate ... I have never, ever in 7 years had a call inquiring about cabling. I have only once, in 7 years seen a tree cabled and that was a real doosie home grown job.

It's all well and good to know this stuff but at the end of the day it wont feed you. Not here.

That's why I like getting on here and having some fun, sometimes stirring the pot and some times not.

Cheers

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

That's because you aussies not only have trees that are too tall, there are too many of them.
Down in S.C., the trees are just to tall and thick.

 

[treeseer]

There just doesn't seem to be the market over here...It's all well and good to know this stuff but at the end of the day it wont feed you. Not here.

THere's no org down there like this? www.asca-consultants.org

Maybe you'll have to start one! Many of the guys in ASCA do very well. It takes a lot of experience, credentials (like your inspection course?), marketing savvy and patience. but they work at it, and it works for them.

If the govt sponsors inspection courses, it seems like there should be a way to build on that.

 

[Ekka]

We have some organisations, I belong to the QAA (Queensland Arborist Association). They have a web site and list us on there but around here people don't know what an arborist is.

We have TCA (Tree Contractors Association) but that mainly serves NSW.

Then there's NAA & ISAAC. But the problem is the general public don't care.

Or better still when you are bidding they milk your brain for info then get the hacks to do what you recommend at half the price. I have had some people try to walk me around their property tree by tree for advice etc, I suggested that whilst I do free quotes on specific work that this was taking a lot of my time and consultations are based at $80 per hour with a one hour minimum charge ... they ask you to leave etc ... flamin scabs.

The media continue to refer to us as treeloppers, the headings under which the local papers run ads is treelopping, we are talking a huge shift in thinking here. I actually had one paper change the heading to tree services, it lasted a few months and changed back to treelopping because both readers and advertisers complained. The most common business names you see are bla bla bla Professional Treeloppers ... a contradiction of ethics and standards in the title alone. I bet if I advertised "treelopping" my phone would ring more.

Then we have a bunch of idiots in our arborists shops. You know I cant buy any decent loggers boots with a steel shank or even an ART rope guide. We are talking primitive. At the moment I have been waiting 2 months for an 18" pro bar for my 044 because all you can buy is cheap junk that lasts me a couple of months.

In your terminology we're like a bunch of back water rednecks.

I've had people argue black and blue that they want their trees pruned correctly, like that one down the road that's been cut in half.

So, 90% of my work is take downs.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Yea don't give in mate, just look at the gravilla across the road, UGLY.

There must be a market for it, but near everything you report on over there you would most probably have to condemn because its so dangerous and left to long anyway.