When to use a bore cut

[smokechase II]

Yes

"Again pardon me working through a sour mash fog but do you mean that you DO NOT use a bore cut when you know or believe that the tree has significant rot or decay?"

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Yes, at least for the most part.

several thoughts here.

1) you risk a pinched bar,
2) trees with significant rot that are vertical can collapse. I've never seen it but I fear that. For most this is a time to step away if there is any concern but in some instances the back cut from the rear, if there is something of a solid rind to work with can be wedged. (Usually the best call here is equipment or driving with another tree.)
3) Rotten trees and hollow trees are very low barber chair risk. The need for a bore back cut isn't there.

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Staying away from a boring back-cut on a tree with splitting potential is also a thought.
I would suggest that the thread cited earlier was on a tree that didn't barber chair but split when blown over.

Splitting trees can twist and there can be a loss of directional control, so they are dangerous for sure. Just not as dangerous as a barber chair - where there is one primary split that moves the fulcrum up the stem.

 

[smokechase II]

I think

"Sorry smoke I didnt get this? It may just be the bourbon of course. I was saying that I do not like using the bore cut at all. If I do use this technique I will only do so when I have pre attached a guide rope as outlined in my post. Did that make more sense? Or am I just schmozzled..."

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My opinion would be if an arborist, (which I am not - big grain of salt), or anyone is using a rope, (which can be a great idea for directional control), with too much tension being applied, (groundmen are challenged - I've picked up on that), by a rope or cable pull that could create a barber chair event.

Hence my suggestion on a bore back-cut, to reduce the risk of the groundman killing the cutter.

Also, generally the strap allows for a precise release moment. This could be where you holler at the groundman to get it together - more or less tension for instance. Then release the tree.

 

[smokechase II]

Does everyone understand what Burvol is saying?

"And you know what? All the guys I have known using 44's and 46's in bigger wood strap all of it. The saw cannot keep up with it, even mild leaners. That's no BS. Cut with a torquey saw, you'll use that bore cut like say, 80% less. That's the truth, but since everyone here drinks Stihl kool-aid from Andreas' you know what, it won't ever change."

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What is a powerful saw?
Torque versus chain speed?
(Ignore the Stihl remarks and focus)

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Another variability in felling a potential barber chair event is not just your ability with a saw but your saws ability.

I believe that the big wood he is talking, (even moderate leaners), about is going to be 4' dbh plus Doug Fir. This is a fairly strong softwood with a stiff strong heartwood. These trees are tall and that also increases barber chair potential.

************

This should prompt a response.

 

[smokechase II]

Take two trees

Take two trees that are the same except one is as stretched out version of the other.
They are the same species and have the same lean and limb configuration etc.

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The taller tree will present a greater risk of barber chair.

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Worry about any increased leverage.
Increased leverage will decrease the amount of time the cutter has.
Taller trees can be a factor that strongly promote boring back-cuts.

 

[Burvol]

"And you know what? All the guys I have known using 44's and 46's in bigger wood strap all of it. The saw cannot keep up with it, even mild leaners. That's no BS. Cut with a torquey saw, you'll use that bore cut like say, 80% less. That's the truth, but since everyone here drinks Stihl kool-aid from Andreas' you know what, it won't ever change."

============

What is a powerful saw?
Torque versus chain speed?
(Ignore the Stihl remarks and focus)

=============

Another variability in felling a potential barber chair event is not just your ability with a saw but your saws ability.

I believe that the big wood he is talking, (even moderate leaners), about is going to be 4' dbh plus Doug Fir. This is a fairly strong softwood with a stiff strong heartwood. These trees are tall and that also increases barber chair potential.

************

This should prompt a response.

Torque is what stumps trees.

 

[Burvol]

Smoke, I have been on both sides here. I used to cut with a 460. That saw will not handle big wood like a 385 or 390. Ya, they are bigger, but they are better stumpers even when stock. The 460 feels like a cheap piece of crap in your hands after picking up a Husky. They are lacking in the torque dept. stock comparitively. I know Slinger builds hot 460's and I would really like to run one to see how they do, he claims they are hot, and I'm sure they are. I used my 460 sometimes on really nasty steep tower ground with small timber, but not anymore. I keep it around for a backup. Now the 660 I have no issues with, they are great saws.

I was talking to my Dad this morning and he was telling me about the two cutters he is with leaving the bigger wood for his 390 because they couldn't cut it with out strapping all of it with 460's. He never ran Husky until this year after I told him about them, and he's sold. Of course after running 655's nothing else really holds a candle in big wood for 100cc's. I use to cut with one here and there and they are beasts on the low end.

I just know that I will never look back.

 

[smokechase II]

460 mod

Burvol:

I'm just retired Forest Circus but I try to keep up because it interests me so much.

What I've seen and heard from others is that most of the serious cutters that run Stihl have modded 460s.
For instance the Northwest Timber Fallers, who we respect highly overall.

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I'd like to think of myself as being on both sides of some issues too.
Which is why I like to jump in on the boring stuff from what I think is a balanced point of view.
Me and Fox I always say.

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A point to others from this thread is that boring in barber chair potential trees is a great thought. Even though you're not a GOL zealot.

Just because you hear of West Coast / big tree guys not being sold on Open Face technique doesn't mean on a case by case basis .............

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Were my dimensions and Doug Fir generally a good guess?

 

[smokechase II]

Just a guess

"the two cutters he is with leaving the bigger wood for his 390 because they couldn't cut it with out strapping all of it with 460's."

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We all have egos. Those guys leaving big wood for someone else means they have judgment that is prevailing over egos.
Not bad.

 

[Burvol]

"the two cutters he is with leaving the bigger wood for his 390 because they couldn't cut it with out strapping all of it with 460's."

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We all have egos. Those guys leaving big wood for someone else means they have judgment that is prevailing over egos.
Not bad.

No, they are both excellent cutters and know when they are going to pull wood with their saws. Big wood is easy to pull if you don't keep up with it. A raised backcut will help tremendously. I have nothing against Stihl products.

 

[Burvol]

Burvol:

I'm just retired Forest Circus but I try to keep up because it interests me so much.

What I've seen and heard from others is that most of the serious cutters that run Stihl have modded 460s.
For instance the Northwest Timber Fallers, who we respect highly overall.

============

I'd like to think of myself as being on both sides of some issues too.
Which is why I like to jump in on the boring stuff from what I think is a balanced point of view.
Me and Fox I always say.

===========

A point to others from this thread is that boring in barber chair potential trees is a great thought. Even though you're not a GOL zealot.

Just because you hear of West Coast / big tree guys not being sold on Open Face technique doesn't mean on a case by case basis .............

============

Were my dimensions and Doug Fir generally a good guess?

I know fire guys love the 460, they are really, really light saws. You can pack one all day with minimal wear. I don't want a saw that I have to build to get to stump right out of the box. I used to cut tower ground with one sporting a reduced weight, which is crucial on that saw. Side by side a regular 32 inch goes into the dirt right away. I was just flat blown away by the 385 &390 after running a 460. They feel like a real powersaw. They have ample torque, awesome filtration stock, and growl like an old powersaw dual port or not, but really sound cool ported. I'm sorry if I sounded negative, but the difference was so astounding to me, I checked my pride at the door and switched. I have some other Stihls that I run here and there and like, but nothing like the Husky. The 460 just feels light and cheap to me now, not to mention the clutch and springs of a 385/390 are so much beefier, easier to bar up, ect.

 

[Jeremiah]

I usually bored cut leaners. But last week I got lazy cut a 40" red oak with what looked like a moderate lean. Regular open faced with a back cut 661cm nice and sharp.. couldn't cut it fast enough and it barber chaired about 15' let me tell you..
It happened quick! Barely made it out in time. Ruined a nice piece of veneer also..
Guess who bore cuts all leaners now

 

[JTM]

I'll bore a leaner to get it down. I've used it more on the trunk that's already down but only in certain circumstances.

 

[Oldman47]

Good resurrection Jeremiah. I am sure the usefulness of a bore cut has not changed but the OP is probably long gone.