Widow makers

[Brian VT]

Newbie faller here. I've only dropped 20-30. I've been cutting standing dead trees for firewood. Mostly ash and some cherry. Most of them had few, if any, branches left on them. Nice stuff. No limbing!
There's a few trees I've been waiting on because they have branches that look like they have the potential to come down and put a hurtin' on me. I know I need to learn to look up more but I'm finding it hard to do while I'm still learning cutting technique.
I was thinking maybe I could have someone, in a relatively safe spot, looking up while I cut and they could try to warn me (with an air horn?) if something lets go ? Any better ideas ?

 

[Metals406]

Newbie faller here. I've only dropped 20-30. I've been cutting standing dead trees for firewood. Mostly ash and some cherry. Most of them had few, if any, branches left on them. Nice stuff. No limbing!
There's a few trees I've been waiting on because they have branches that look like they have the potential to come down and put a hurtin' on me. I know I need to learn to look up more but I'm finding it hard to do while I'm still learning cutting technique.
I was thinking maybe I could have someone, in a relatively safe spot, looking up while I cut and they could try to warn me (with an air horn?) if something lets go ? Any better ideas ?

Brian, by the time they blew the horn, and you heard it, the branch or top would have already pile drove you into the ground.

One option is to use another three to drive it over, after it's faced up and back cut--with a wedge so it doesn't sit back on you (which holds dangers of it's own), and always look-up, look-up, look-up... I have to always remind myself to look up too, so don't feel alone in that.

You're not falling for money, if it takes you 15 minutes to face a tree, because you're being cautious... And you're looking up a lot--so be it. Better slow and safe, than fast and dead (or hurt).

 

[TreePointer]

Since it's a firewood tree and not one for the mill, cut higher up the trunk in a comfortable position. If you're already standing straight up, it's easier to look up and run away if necessary.

If you don't have another tree to drive it, you can try to rope it and pull it over from outside the danger area (pull with a truck, tractor, winch, come-along, mule team, mother-in-law, etc.).

 

[Brian VT]

That makes sense that it'd be easier to look up if I'm standing upright. I'll try that.
Both of your replies suggest that the danger is mostly after the tree starts falling and that's why I should rope it and pull it over from a safe distance rather than wedging it.
I was afraid of getting hit while cutting. Maybe if I give the trunk a few raps with the axe to see if I can shake anything loose before starting I should be safe(r) while cutting until the back cut is almost done ?
I wasn't planning on roping since these are in the woods, with no trails or anything around them, but I will if you think it's much safer than wedging.

 

[clutch25]

Since it's a firewood tree and not one for the mill, cut higher up the trunk in a comfortable position. If you're already standing straight up, it's easier to look up and run away if necessary.

I always do this....much easier. Then flush cut the stump for one more round.

 

[Tree Pig]

Since it's a firewood tree and not one for the mill, cut higher up the trunk in a comfortable position. If you're already standing straight up, it's easier to look up and run away if necessary.

Great advice, the other thing you could thing about is getting a through bag set up and try pulling the questionable limbs down before you cut. Time is not a factor here so do everything you can to limit the risks.

But as stated when felling trees PPE and look up, look up, look up. I went and had myself surgically altered so that I am cross eyed. I can now look up and keep an eye on my cut at the same time.

 

[Kansas]

Some trees will not go where you want them no matter what you do but watching the gap and listening to the tree are your best clues imo.

Also I make sure I cut myself an escape path in several directions if its crowded and have been known on many occasions to leave the saw and run if a tree has pinched it and is coming down because its all gone wrong at that point thats when I start looking up.

Avoid cutting trees that have another tree leaning against them that will make your wife a widow quicker I almost found that out the hard way.

Kansas

 

[Brian VT]

Great advice, the other thing you could thing about is getting a through bag set up and try pulling the questionable limbs down before you cut. Time is not a factor here so do everything you can to limit the risks.

But as stated when felling trees PPE and look up, look up, look up. I went and had myself surgically altered so that I am cross eyed. I can now look up and keep an eye on my cut at the same time.

I hadn't thought about trying to pull them down first. Great idea. I'll start with the scariest looking ones and see how they feel. Maybe they're still pretty solid.
The lizard eye operation sounds handy too. It might put a damper on my motorcycle racing though. lol

 

[AT sawyer]

Gravity and the Widowmaker

Metals406 is correct. People don't realize how fast free falling objects come down and how the physics principals of mass and acceleration can conk you but good (permanently). You should be looking up before starting any cut.

One advantage the old crosscut saw and axe fellers had was hearing the crackling of a high limb letting go. Combine your chainsaw engine with the typical PPE you should be wearing and your eyes provide the only warning.

 

[Tree Pig]

Nah man it would really help in the S-Turns think about it.

 

[Brian VT]

Metals406 is correct. People don't realize how fast free falling objects come down...

You're right. I'd have thought I'd have more time than the link demonstrates. That Newton guy sure made things tough.

One advantage the old crosscut saw and axe fellers had was hearing the crackling of a high limb letting go.

You all will laugh but on my 1st few falls, when I was almost set to drop it, I stopped with a fat hinge because I was so nervous. I went and got my battery powered Ryobi chainsaw and continued the last bit of hinge with that. It's super quiet so I could hear what the tree was doing and it really slowed everything down so I could get a better feel for the whole process. It really built up some confidence for this total newbie. I also noticed that I could feel vibrations/movement in the ground when things started happening. That knowledge has helped a few times when the saw is screaming and I have ear muffs on.

 

[Brian VT]

I got thinking about my problem with looking up.
If there's a breeze then the top of the tree is moving. It's hard for me to tell if it's falling or just swaying. I'm in the habit of watching the back of the back cut to see when it starts opening up, rather than looking up.
Maybe I need to make a steel tripod to stand under while felling. I might also benefit from that "pyramid power" that I've read about. LOL

 

[AT sawyer]

Yes. I do a lot of crosscut saw work and you really hear the tree talking. Those old saws also "sing" when they're cutting dead hardwood, particularly the Simonds Chinooks.

 

[Metals406]

Watching the back-cut opening to judge the tree falling is a bad habit (again, one I can be guilty of)... It's better to watch the top, glance at the back-cut, watch the top, glance at the back-cut, and so forth.

Notice I said "watch the top" and "glance at the back-cut". One you are watching, one you are glancing at. It's a delicate dance with your eyes, but one that might save you a headache or worse.

Bart did okay here:

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[smokechase II]

speed kills

An unobstructed object, falling from 50 feet, takes less than two seconds to reach the ground and is going exactly 40 mph when it hits. There is slightly complicated math to determine these figures from different heights.

Now a long limb with lots of needles or other leaves is an obstructed object. The obstruction being the air resistance.

Never the less pay heed to what is said about:
Lookout recognition of falling object,
Lookout decision to warn,
Lookout warning method and its time needed,
Faller recognition of warning,
Faller decision to move (perhaps complicated by the faller looking up to decide),
Faller egress time.

-------------

Yeah sure, all of that's easy to do in under two seconds.

 

[smokechase II]

Avoid danger

A couple keys are being able to say no to a dangerous situation. Even though others may have the ability or may not have the good sense to discipline themselves the rest of us need to have the ability to live another day.

Plus having the ability to make all your cuts from just one side of the tree.
It could be either but this key is to not place yourself under danger.

========================

Here is a discussion of widowmaker danger with regard to escape time and the use of lookouts:

http://www.wildfirelessons.net/documents/Soft-Limb-Synopsis-1-30-06.pdf

http://www.wildfirelessons.net/documents/Scratchline_Issue17_2008_Add.pdf

http://www.nwcg.gov/teams/shwt/httf/resources/accidents-lessons-learned/rombo-fla.pdf

http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/safety/council/newsletters/may06/may06.html


and so forth

All the best

 

[smokechase II]

Remember

Usually it is some vibration or wind that sponsors a widowmaker being kicked loose.

Usually,

A good first move is to do a great size up while not under or in harms way.
To do this correctly the faller must size up the tree from at least two different views 90 plus degrees apart.

A good second move is to hit any suspect tree/snag with your falling axe and look up immediately. Being ready to escape very fast. Several times while checking for rot is a good double reason for this.

Thirdly, make all your cuts from the safest location,

Fourth, look up. Most of the time to make your cuts does not require staring at the saw/cut like it was the only thing in the universe. Look Up - glance down.

Develop a technique where your body is more vertical while cutting. You present less of a target and it is easier to look up. You will find that some different undercutting techniques make it more difficult to look up. The conventional is the easiest to look up when doing but that does not mean you should limit yourself to that type of face.

Loose limbs to start with mean they are more likely to break off when passing by another tree and be thrown back at you by that tree.
Don't wait for just one sway of the trees hit by your tree to say all clear. Keep watching for several seconds - at least three swings of the leave trees. Point our any newly created widow makers now hanging to all around.

what did I forget?

Oh yeah, I need to also back the guy recommending higher stumps.

 

[Taxmantoo]

An unobstructed object, falling from 50 feet, takes less than two seconds to reach the ground and is going exactly 40 mph when it hits. There is slightly complicated math to determine these figures from different heights.

Distance = 1/2 x acceleration x time x time
Since one G ~ 32 ft/second/second, a limb drops 16' in one second, 64' in two seconds.
Speed = time x acceleration, or 32 fps after one second, 64fps after two seconds.
One fps is about 2/3 of a mile per hour.

If you're thinking about a helper warning you, look at this and watch the video:
http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/safety/council/newsletters/may06/may06.html

 

[Metals406]

Distance = 1/2 x acceleration x time x time
Since one G ~ 32 ft/second/second, a limb drops 16' in one second, 64' in two seconds.
Speed = time x acceleration, or 32 fps after one second, 64fps after two seconds.
One fps is about 2/3 of a mile per hour.

If you're thinking about a helper warning you, look at this and watch the video:
http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/safety/council/newsletters/may06/may06.html

That video is a good example of what's being expressed here.

 

[tree md]

I'm sure a lot of this has already been already mentioned but when falling I always try to:

Use my throwline to pull out any hangers, snags or questionable limbs above me, plan an escape route before I make a cut and get a rope in the tree to pull it over. A lot of times you can pull one over without having to be under it. Especially on dead trees, they are lighter.

Oh yeah, as has been mentioned, I am also always watching the top of the tree (or tip of the limb when pruning) as I make my cut to see where it's going and to watch for for potential hazards.