Will You Join the NEWTS?

[Guy Meilleur]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: newts

Originally posted by netree
I'm NOT sure about how safe screening would be to run into with a chainsaw
how about light-gauge aluminum screen?

Sorry, Guy. That info is for members only.

Now that's a masterful (but ultimately impotent)attempt at a hijack. I think we have about 5 cofounders; how's that?

 

[ORclimber]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: newts

Originally posted by Mike Maas
When environmentalists spiked trees in the past, the loggers would say that they care more about the trees than the loggers, because of the potential for injury from hitting the spikes with a saw, but how could hitting a spike cause an injury?

The ceramic spikes were supposed to break apart and send flying shards. Dunno, never seen or hit one of those spikes.

Why not use the same plastic screen used in screen doors. It could be partially imbedded in epoxy etc, either on top of the foam fill, or right on top of large cuts.

 

[geofore]

seal

The carpenter ants here go for the cherry trees and when I trim limbs on cherry trees I use a small garden rake to scrape off a bit of the loose outer bark to expose the new pink bark underneath on the trunk which fools the woodpeckers into thinking this was done by another woodpecker to get a meal. The bark will go dark in a season or two but in the meantime the woodpeckers keep coming back and find the ants/bugs for a meal which keeps down the number of ants/bugs getting into the wounds. This gives the tree a chance to seal before the ants/bugs get a chance to dig into wound and set up a new home. Whether it good for the tree or not I don't know. I do know it gets the woodpeckers to watch the tree for a meal until the bark darkens again. The ants/bugs come for the sweet sap and the birds come for a meal and eat the ants/bugs. The tree gets a season or two to recover (start to seal the wound) with the birds watching the tree. While it makes the tree look bad for a season or two (disclored bark) it gets the attention of the birds and the birds get the ants/bugs. I'll say NEWTS so we stay on topic.

 

[Nickrosis]

Re: seal

Originally posted by geofore
I'll say NEWTS so we stay on topic.

Good one. GM is patrolling for derailers.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Re: seal

Originally posted by geofore
The ants/bugs come for the sweet sap and the birds come for a meal and eat the ants/bugs. The tree gets a season or two to recover (start to seal the wound) with the birds watching the tree.

An ingenious sort of prophylactic biocontrol. Geofore, do you think any insects besides carpenter ants expand cavities?

 

[Tree Machine]

That is an interesting approach. These threads are working, in getting the ideas out on to the table.

The expanding foam filler is kinda tricky because, well, because it expands. Ya never really know how much it will expand until its over (the next day), and it can be surprising.

I have cut an oval or a circle out of one of my brown tarps and had it sized and pinned to the inside (underside, backside?) of the callus from the bottom of the cavity to about 2/3 of the way up. Immediately after the foam has been shot in, the pinning (plastic headed push pins) of the upper third is completed. The foam will generally stop if there's a barrier and I haven't had it put so much pressure as to come bursting out. The brown tarp material blends with the bark and doesn't appear so unnatural as the yellow-orange foam.

I like the idea of the screen, though, better. Someone mentioned plastic screeen, for screen doors. Actually, I think it is fiberglass, which makes NE's fiberglass resin idea fit even better. I'm not sure how the screen would behave with the foam, whether the foam would stop, or whether it would extrude through a thousand little holes. Even if it did, surfacing it back to the screen would be pretty simple.

Keep the ideas coming, brother NEWTS.

 

[Nickrosis]

Originally posted by Nickrosis
Do you care to explain yourself? I appreciate you bringing me into this.

Jim, I'm still wondering about this.

 

[Tree Machine]

I'm sorry Nick. I proposed that you will take anything written by Dr Shigo as an absolute truth. That was a poor assumption of mine based on a minimal of information.

Please forgive me. It wasn't meant to be a bash on you. I'm just seeing you as one who is respected and that a lot of 'conventional' wisdom gets worn out over time. I would hope you wouldn't hold dearly to information gathered mebbe decades ago based on the use of materials of that era just because you have such a high respect for Dr Shigo. I have an equal amount of respect and endearment for him, too, but it doesn't mean that some of the 'truths' of his day shouldn't be updated. I know he would agree.

we're working on a problem that I personally don't think can be solved within the academic arena. I truly believe this one is up to us.

Are we OK? Can I give you a hug?

 

[MasterBlaster]

I just caught this thread...

I thought we were forming a biker gang...

I WUZ gonna complain about the name, though...

 

[MasterBlaster]

 

[Nickrosis]

Originally posted by Tree Machine
we're working on a problem that I personally don't think can be solved within the academic arena. I truly believe this one is up to us.

We're cool. But I respectfully, whole-heartedly disagree.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by Nickrosis
I respectfully, whole-heartedly disagree.

Coming from one who has been intimately bonded with academia for his entire adult life, this is not surprising. I also hear from others who have a vested stake in that realm (seeking tenure, etc.) also say that to be valid, all research must be done entirely within academia. Their lock on our industry is not as tight as lawyers' and doctors' on theirs, but still it is considerable.

I hope Jim will agree that NEWTS must be connected to established institutions to achieve the goal of being published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. I hope Nick will agree that field work done outside existing academic structures and personnel, but with accepted scientific procedures, is vital to a meaningful study of WT & S.

A lot of good research has been done waaay out in the field. Partnerships with academic folks are needed to bring it all into a form that can benefit the industry.

And MB, I think NEWTS is a good name for a biker gang; let's ride!

Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
Lookin' for adventure
And whatever comes our way

Like a true nature's child
We were born, born to be wild
We can climb so high
I never wanna die

Born to be wild
Born to be wild

 

[Nickrosis]

Doesn't have to be in an institution, of course. But it certainly helps to have the resources of it. And it's easier to find impartiality.

 

[Tree Machine]

I'm with you guys. A joint venture between ourselves and academia would be an ideal relationship. What I meant by I truly believe this one is up to us. is that we need to be the motivating force, and that we have key resources at our fingertips that are not generally part of an academic setting (bucket trucks, chain saws, able climbers).

Thanks for wholeheartedly disagreeing so I could make that statement more clear.

 

[geofore]

bugs/cavities

There are quite a few bugs, some tree specific like the peach borer or apple borer and there are two beetles that go for Ash trees, other bugs are not so picky. Have you ever stepped out on a dead limb in a white pine the carpenter bees have been at? Gives out, right from under you. Most of the bugs are looking for a spot where the bark is removed because the bark has it's own chemical defense that kills the bug if it eats green bark. The bugs are looking for dead/exposed wood. There are bees, wasps and beetles that will drill in to lay eggs. They are just waiting for the opportunity to get past the bark. Off topic: One thing that struck me as strange were the caterpillars white/with black tuffs that eat the walnut leaves and leave the hickories trees alone down here along Interstate 70 but go north to Interstate 80 and the same caterpillars eat the leaves of the hickory trees and leave the walnut trees alone. So even the location can make a difference in what the bugs favorite eats are. Guy, I don't have my bug book handy, I can't name them off the top of my head. I'm having a senior moment.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Totally off track, save to the thoughts of tree respect........

i found this verbal quote that i really liked;
for setting the mood of respect.

"Another freshly cut redwood tree.............

When you put your hands on a freshly cut stump;
you can feel the warmth....
of the formerly living ancient one."
~Steam Reel Photo Archive

Our very own GypoClimber has the best collection of old pix in huge timber i've seen, and most of those from what Doug Babcock worked out of Art Martin's treasured photos in chainsaw. All from our gang!

Thank-You, we now continue with our already scheduled programming!

:alien:

 

[geofore]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
The first thing you need to do is come up with a protocol for testing. For example, a standard size drill, spun in a certain depth, to create a wound. Then a treatment and a set amount of time before the tree is disected. I ain't no research expert, but don't you need a standard test like this?

My bet is that when we do find something that works well, it will be a fungicide based product. My intuition also tells me cavities should be filled to exclude secondary critters. So there may need to be two different products, one to fill, and one to stop or slow decay.

I would suggest two holes, plug one with a dowel pin, one not. The tree looks for a soild foundation to seal over. What does a bird, squirel or bug do to stop a tree from sealing over the entrance to it's home? Do they enlarge the hole or the cavity or both? Basic questions, What does nature do? What are we trying to change to get a different result? These may sound like stupid questions but there is a need to start somewhere.