Woodmaster vs Central Boiler advice please

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HUSKYMAN

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I am getting a OWB in a couple months for a new house I am building. I will be heating a 1700 sq ft house and about a 1500 sq ft pole barn, along with all my hot water.

I am leaning towards Central Boiler because I know two guys who have them and they appear to be very well made. I also like the urethane firebox insulation vs the fiberglass used in other models. The problem the CB is that the dealer in my county sucks apparently, and is good for buying the unit only and is pretty useless as far as installation.

There is a Woodmaster dealer fairly close and the 4400 looks like a good model, and is significantly cheaper than the CB 5036. The Woodmaster appears to be a very simple design and easy to maintain.

I am looking for a little first hand experience with both these models, and why one may be a better choice than the other. Thanks
 
Well, chalk up two no account CB dealers as my local dealer lost them a sale too. Was a toss up for me, there are things I like about both designs. I really like my Woodmaster for the round chamber being a snap to keep cleaned of buildup and fewer welds. The heat baffle is neat but I don't think it traps the heat like the CB design. Unlike some I have no issues with efficiency. To heat my old 2000 foot house and my 28x24 shop last year I burned (about) 4-5 cords of wood in an air tight stove in the shop plus $3000.000 worth of gas for the house and water. Last year was mild but so is this one so far. This year I am heating both and my water. The Woodmaster has been on since Mid September and I would (guess again) that I have burned 4-5 cord. House is now set at 75 (old fart here) and shop is set at 65. I am thrilled with my wood usage. There is no issues with me on the insulation. As advertised the snow will remain on the roof of the Woodmaster for the same amount of time it remains on the house roof. If it rots or losses it ability to insulate it can be replaced, try that with a CB.There is heat loss to the outside from the door, like all others, when the draft is off but when the draft fan is on the door is also cold to the touch. I have said it on here before, I have never talked to an unsatisfied OWB owner, only read about them and there is a ton of them burning around here. 5 or 6 within sight of my place all differant makes. I'd go with the best dealer, and company that has been around a while.
 
How do you like the forced draft? I have access to some pretty good hardwood, I will be burning mostly maple, oak, and beech with some crap wood mixed in. Does the forced draft keep the ashes to a minimum and the chimney pretty clean?

Woodmaster is advertising $5200 for the 4400, which is about $1000 cheaper than the CB


Also how is the access to the pipes, fittings, etc on the Woodmaster? Seems like the CB has pretty good access
 
How do you like the forced draft? I have access to some pretty good hardwood, I will be burning mostly maple, oak, and beech with some crap wood mixed in. Does the forced draft keep the ashes to a minimum and the chimney pretty clean?

Woodmaster is advertising $5200 for the 4400, which is about $1000 cheaper than the CB


Also how is the access to the pipes, fittings, etc on the Woodmaster? Seems like the CB has pretty good access

The amount of ashes depends entirely on what you are burning. If you read my posts (rants?) you see that I have been burning some sycamore and Id guess for every pick up load of wood burned you would haul away a third of a load of ashes. With oak, maybe two 5 gallon cans for same amount of wood burned. Ashes are not really much of a pain with an OWB, you are outside so dust isn't an issue, except on Sunday AM, LOL, and they are easy to shovel out and throw in the yard.

Forced draft vs natural? A natural draft will recover the water temp more slowly and if you read the specs you will notice that forced draft stoves will have less water capacity than the ones that use natural draft. I am no engineer but Id say and small capacity (for water) boiler with natural draft would be a loser because of not being able to pick up heating loads fast enough and a forced draft with a big capacity for water would be less efficient than one with a smaller capacity. The 4400 water capacity is much smaller than a CB unit of similar heating capacity. i am not saying the natural draft stoves wont heat,just that they depend on more BTUs being in storage in the water jacket than a (properly designed) forced draft unit.

I have not touched my chimney since I fired it and it does not need cleaning now. It has burned out a couple times Thu I am aware of.

The Woodmaster is wide open at the rear for access to the pump area.

As I said earlier there are 5-6 OWBs almost within eye sight and they are all different makes, Heatmore, CB, Heatsource1, Woodmaster, Wooddoctor, Mahoning and a couple I cant recall oldest is maybe 4 years? Given that they are not losing vast amounts of heat under ground due to poor installations they all seem to burn the same amounts of wood given what they are being asked to do. I really don't see any difference to make noise about. They will burn more wood than a stove that is heating a room or two while leaving the rest of the home cold as they very well should. I went with forced draft because i have lots of acreage in woods but little of it is our classic "fire woods" and I thought that it would allow easier burning of the lessor quality stuff I happen to own.
 
woodmaster and cb

I narrowed it down to these two and choose the woodmaster. The wood doctor had too small a door compared to the others. I like the idea of a forced draft for burning green wood and junk wood, especially in the warmer months when there is longer down times between burn cycles. The wood master is easier to setup. You just need 4 pavers instead of making a large flat area for the CB. I have had no problems with the woodmaster. I heat 2000 square feet of living space.

Puck
 
woodmaster

I bought it last september.

It has operated without issue.

puck

PS. What everyou do, make sure you spend the extra money for good ground piping. I went with the thermal-pex which has two 1" pex lines in an insulated 5 inch black pipe. Foam insulated, not bubble wrapped. You only want to dig that ditch once, so do it right. The lines are expensive (10 bucks a foot) but well worth it.
 
I plan on going with Thermoplex. Its all going on the house loan so at least the extra cost is tax deductible:biggrinbounce2:
 
Will you be going with infloor or forced air. I have infloor in both house and shed and also forced in the house with central air. nothin nicer than a warm floor in sthe downstairs area. or the shop:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:
 
Central Boiler here...

If we had to do it all over again (not that we have to), I would do exactly what we did and buy a CB (again).

Personally after a lot of reaserch on OWBs, looking around, and asking for references from plumbing and heating and energy companies here, we bought a Central Boiler. Woodmaster, Taylor and Central Boiler are the best OWBs overall I think. We have a good CB dealer here in Oregon but I did not have to rely on him for much. CB has excellent online support at the factory if your local dealer is a dolt. They speak real live English (what a change from everything else that I call for tech support!), and they know what they are selling and how to install various systems. CB has the best 25 year warantee out there. They have also been around (certaily avoid any new companies selling OWBs, they seem to fold fast). CB also has nice THICK steel and good qulity materials. I chose them mainly for the overkill aspect. I poured a 4" concrete slab for it; why mess with anything else? Insulation will never go bad on a CB... it rains here constantly and there is no problem with the CB insulation. We had a problem with the control readout after a year (it was working, just did not state the temp) and CB replaced it, no problem.

I would not bother with a forced air draft system. More parts to fail over time, and natural convection is more than adequate to keep air on the fire and bring it up to temp. Our boiler will overshoot and undershoot about 5 degrees from setting. We set it at 165 F, where the unit will shut the damper. It opens at 155 F. So overall it swings from 150 F to 170 F. The speed of flame recovery is not really an issue for the draft system. As for the design of the firebox, round or square or whatever is not going to be a real difference. Nether is the baffle system from what I have seen. Most are adequate. I would avoid auger or grated firebox floor systems though. More stuff to clog up and deal with. The CB has a large deep ash pan and it needs ash cleaning depending on the type of wood burned. You want a good ash layer for coals to burn in though, so you do not want the bed of the firebox to be too clean. I clean our boiler ashes about once a month in winter when the ashes get up to the lower level of the door. I use them on the gardens as fertylizer.

We burn mostly Doug for, alder, oak and madrone, and some maple and willow. We also burn wet, bug eaten and dry rot wood, green wood, and old lumber scraps. Anything but treated wood. I also avoid burning plywood and strandboard becasue it has a lot of resin in it. The amount of wood burned will be directly porportional to the outside temerature, heat demand and heat losses in your house. You want to avoid heat loss in the PEX lines to the boiler from the house, and you want to bury them 2 ft deep where you live. Ground water is the biggest casue of heat loss in the PEX lines. To avoid that make sure that your lines are water tight and insulated. You can buy the expensive stuff, or make your own. They sell the stuff that I designed on Ebay now. I took 4 inch corrugated black drain pipe and stuffed them with a pair of (one red and one blue) foam sleeved insulated pex lines. Maybe R-4 at best, but the ground will insulate your pipes more than anything else.

The access panel for the plumbing and electrical in the CB usit is more than adequate for the job. CB has a second pair of intake and outlet ports drilled and tapped so that you can expand the system if you want to upgrade with a second heating loop. There is also more than enough room in the panel for Taco pumps and fittings, as well as bypass valves and hose bibbs. I designed and added a lot more stuff in there than they call for. One way check-valves, drain and fill valves, return temp gauge, etc. Also we bought a plain steel box. CB has a stainless option, but stainless does not conduct heat as well, and it is a grand more. Not worth it or needed from what I have seen. Our system has zero rust after a season and a half of use.

Basically, after the system was installed, all we have had to do is keep it filled with wood. I did the entire design and install myself. I am a degreed engineer and I was a plumber and part time electrician for several years, so this was not that hard for me. Our design was somewhat complicated with an existing solar water heater to tap into, and a pressurized electric hydronic floor heating system. I used 2 flat plate heat exchanges to heat the hot water and house floor loop with. Sizing the heat exchangers was an issue, and CB phone support not only helped me size them, but they got it perfectly matched. Flat plate is more expensive, but they recover heat faster than side arm units. The colored PEX was a pain to get through our local HW store, and the PEX to brass fittings are rediculously expensive.

Anyway, good luck with your decision process. Also keep in mind that there is a lot of anti-OWB laws being passed lately, especially in the Atlantic and New England states. You can also look over on the Mother Earth News Forum for a LOT of posted information and debates about different OWB manufactures and OWB vs indoor wood stoves, etc. Similar to AS, but more flame wars and passion about OWB brand loyalty.
 
What is the warrantee on the Woodmaster? I couldnt find it on their website or the literature they sent me.

I am not famailiar with the proper terms, but I am having a hydronic heat system with baseboard radiators installed in the house. I grew up with this setup in my parents house and I can't stand the forced air system in my current house. So the wood boiler will just be plumbed into my propane boiler and the propane boiler will serve as my backup.
 
Propane Central Boiler option

What is the warrantee on the Woodmaster? I couldnt find it on their website or the literature they sent me.

I am not famailiar with the proper terms, but I am having a hydronic heat system with baseboard radiators installed in the house. I grew up with this setup in my parents house and I can't stand the forced air system in my current house. So the wood boiler will just be plumbed into my propane boiler and the propane boiler will serve as my backup.

Hydronic baseboard heating system is proper enough of a term.

If you do not have the propane boiler already you can get a CB unit that has dual heat; propane and wood. You can also get them for burning natural gas and wood, or heating oil and wood. Thus they are capable of working as their own backup systems. Also, if you do not have a pressurized hydronic system in your house, you can feed the floor system directly with the CB boiler low pressure hot water loop. I would have done it that way if we did not already have an electric hydronic floor heating system already installed here. With a pressurized hydronic system you need to tie the boiler loop into the floor heating system with a heat exchanger. The great thing about the "better" OWBs is that they are not pressurized systems. Far safer that way. By the way, CB also has a UL rating. I do not know what other ones do. ;)
 
What is the warrantee on the Woodmaster? I couldnt find it on their website or the literature they sent me.

I am not famailiar with the proper terms, but I am having a hydronic heat system with baseboard radiators installed in the house. I grew up with this setup in my parents house and I can't stand the forced air system in my current house. So the wood boiler will just be plumbed into my propane boiler and the propane boiler will serve as my backup.

The warrenty is 1 year replacement on any defective part and replacement of entire furnace if it leaks. After one year they are warrentied for leakage only and they pay 90% of repair costs. Each year thereafter they pay another 10% less, meaning 80, 70 60 etc. Like everyone else they will not pay for rot out due to ash corosion, neglect, da da da. and have a lifetime $300 coupon for another Woodmaster purchase, big whoopie, LOL. Woodmaster claims to have the thickest jacket in the industry and when a person looks at the shipping weight vs over all size, capacity etc that would seem to be correct. To tell you the truth I realy dont see a lot to choose from as long as you stay with a Mfg that has been in business for a while and the dealer seems to be OK. Any furnace will rot out if you neglect it and as long as it was reasonably put together rust should not be a problem in the periods any of them are warrentied. The electrical gizmos are all Std off the shelf items no matter who welds them up and has decals made. Mine is working with my forced air furnace in the house and heating my shop with a Geo Metro radiator, fan and shroud and a line voltage thermostat/
 
wood master / central boiler

new to this site
there is another out door wood stove Co. to look into EMPYRE made by profab very good unit . I have one and love it
 
wood master /central bioler

the empry have both a door fan induction and they have tubes aon the sides . I have the one with the tubes on the sides . fast recovery times and burns anything you feed it green wood is big as you can fit through the door . I also burn the chips from my chippper in the spring and fall or when it is not extreamly clod out burnsbest.com has a informative web site on them
 
In a cold climate like MI forced air draft is very advantageous as your home will cool down while the boiler comes up to temp. The faster you can get the boiler up to temp the less chance this has of happening. Its not really a issue when its in the 20 at night, but when it drops down bellow zero its a major issue.
I would also make sure you size your circ pumps and heat exchangers on the conservative side.
As for insulated pipe. After trying the insulated pex type stuff that comes on a roll and insul-seal that come sin rigid 8 foot lengths the clear winner is insul-seal.
 
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