yalex running brummel type tress cord

[Gord]

I, um, found this tress cord...anyone want to comment on it's construction? Sort of the beginning of a brummel splice, a running splice it is...works like an absolute charm. and the yalex runs like a dream to boot. not recommending anyone else makes one like this because I say it works, but it is the best tress cord i have yet to use.

 

[NickfromWI]

Well, I knew it'd be naive to think I was the only one who was gonna try that. I made mine by whipping the ends down with sail twine, instead of the electrical tape.

You're right, it seems like someone started the splice, but left it at that.

Make sure you leave the tails (the ones that are taped down) as long as you can stand it. If they ravel loose, you're in for some trouble.

And, like Gord, I don't reccomend anyone try it either

love
nick

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I bet if you tested it it would break at a very low presure. All that really holds it together is the weave in the last inch of rope, and all that holds that is some tape.
Even whipped, I guess it would break at less than a thousand pounds.
The function of a locking brummel is to keep the tail of a properly buried splice from working loose, not to be load carrying, and this is only a half a brummel.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

TM218, who is a mycophagic cordage freak, explained to me that most hollowbraid slices break at the point were there is a change in the diameterof the bury. I would be interested in how this would go, since theter is none.

Would the friction in the pass through be the weak point on a shockload??

Nick, send a few to Yale for breaking!

 

[Matt Follett]

ony hypothisizing here, but I would think that they would be capable of some quite high loads, the effect of choking own on the biner attachment would distribute the force quite well don't you think?

and while yes all that's holding the end beyond the (dare I say) splice) together is the whipping, a good whipped only eye can be pretty strong providing it is around a object which the load can be disributed to, I am also thinking of the running bowline principle when pulling over a spar, (with appropriate mechanical advantage, a 5:1, not a 8 cylinder)
and how little force seams to be applied to the bowline itself...

Of course I am in no way promoting or suggesting that it is safe(CYA) but I wonder when, where it would break? hook it to the 5:1, anchor , apply a force, get the truck whatever, test it out, tells us what you find...

Herein lies some fun to be had this winter, testing things, fun fun

 

[NickfromWI]

JP, that was the first thing that came to mind when I saw the pics! I'll call them tomorrow morn!

love
nick

 

[treeman218]

Why not tie buntline hitches in the ends of the cord? Seems like it would be just as compact and way more secure. plus it would have that same choking action

I really don't like that configuration. It seems that there is the choking action on the eye but there is also the pushing open of the braid. Also, the choking action on this cord is loading the tape which is pretty much holding this thing together.

Try sticking a hollow fid 1" from the end of 12-strand hollow braid and then pulling. It doesn't take a heck of a lot of force to pull that fid right out of the end of the rope. Do the same thing with a taped end and it is definitely harder but that is of course for "tape in new and good condition" javascript:smilie('')

Nick has definite good points about leaving the tails as long as possible and his seizing is absolutely stronger than electical tape. Try pulling the tape off that splice and you will see what an integral part (also the melted end) of the splice that the tape is. This does not look cool, there is no way that I would climb on it. Although I'd be really interested in the break results. Nick, send in some taped ones to Yale.

 

[NeTree]

Originally posted by NickfromWI
Well, I knew it'd be naive to think I was the only one who was gonna try that. I made mine by whipping the ends down with sail twine, instead of the electrical tape.

You're right, it seems like someone started the splice, but left it at that.

Make sure you leave the tails (the ones that are taped down) as long as you can stand it. If they ravel loose, you're in for some trouble.

And, like Gord, I don't reccomend anyone try it either

love
nick

Anyone ever try "Plasti-Dip" as whipping?

 

[NickfromWI]

Originally posted by treeman218
Try sticking a hollow fid 1" from the end of 12-strand hollow braid and then pulling. It doesn't take a heck of a lot of force to pull that fid right out of the end of the rope. Do the same thing with a taped end and it is definitely harder but that is of course for "tape in new and good condition"

Yep, it's tough to bust through that tape. Now whip it and see if you can do it.

This is sketchy. But I'd give it a shot.

And regarding the buntline hitches...yes- safer, securer, and accepted by most as "reasonable." However, it is bulkier than a splice (even this half-splice). That's why I love splices- stream lined!

I've climbed on a tress cord that had locking brummells on each side. Instead of having tails around 10" long to bury, I cut them super short and buried about 2". This worked marvelously. It was along the same lines of a scaled down splice, but was more secure than this "half splice" and also did a better job of not being bulky.

I'll try and send some samples to yale for breaking. They are busy there, so no promises. Anyone have a round tuit I can use until I get it done!

Oh, and the dip-it...never tried it to provide security in this manner, but I wouldn't expect it to be succesfull used like this.

love
nick

 

[Burnham]

Maybe I'm being overly cautious, but I can't see that the search for non-bulky, streamlined gear justifies use of a taped "half-splice", or a "sketchy" whipped shadow of a splice for life support. I am not an advanced splicer, far from it, so I cannot judge except by the qualifiers the users themselves have posted. These are giving me the heebie-jeebies .

 

[Gord]

Had a chance today to do a little impromptu testing/abuse on this setup, rather another bit of rope I had spliced in similar manner. Not exactly sure how it happened, but the rope broke at a force that several strong men could produce. This being a rope that shouldn't break at less than 8000 pounds or so...

I think that this method causes the strain to be put on individual fibers, which then break, causing new fibers to be put under strain which in turn break, ie. the rope tears. So I won't be using this setup any longer.

 

[Gord]

Rocky yalex is yale's version of samson's tenex, loosely single braided polyester. Or is it part nylon...not sure?

 

[NickfromWI]

Nope, it's all polyester. Tenex, Yalex, and Nerex are all polyester single braids (hollow braids).

Gord, when you tested this, did the individual strands of the rope actuallybreak, or did the end of the rope unravel?

love
nick

 

[geofore]

tested

So testing it caused you to change your mind about posting the pic? The after the test pic is the one I want to see, we could then see what kind of failure the rope had. Can you post the before and after pics side by side? I'm sure you're convinced it is good to test the things you use for life support?

 

[NickfromWI]

It might not be a good test for passing, but it's a good test to see if it fails!

In other words, if it can't beat the pull of a few guys, then you know it's no good. But just because it DOES beat a few guys, doesn't mean it is good.

love
nick

yeah, let's see the after pic!

 

[NickfromWI]

Gord, I agree. Please put the pic back.

One the one hand, someone might look at it and decide they want to try it. That would be bad.

On the other hand, someone might be using that same "half splice" right now. They may stumble on the picture, say to themselves, "Hey, that's what I use," then read our posts and think twice about it.

This is a great place to learn and that was a good learning tool. Also, it was good because it was different. Thinking outside the box, you know.


love
nick

 

[Gord]

Nick the strands broke. It wasn't this tress cord that broke but a sort of daisy chain that I had spliced in the same manner for light rigging. I should point out that I did not use this tress cord nor the daisy chain in any situations I felt were critical. As we've hashed out before each individual leg of a tress cord takes only a small portion of ones' body weight. So I had been using the tress cord only for 'low and slow' type climbing, keeping a close watch on it. I'm disappointed that the splice didn't work out as, had it been strong, it would make a lot of things possible/convenient. Another thing to consider regarding this is the necessity of proper long buries when using the brummel splice, as it seems that if the load was born by the locking crossover in a brummel it would likely cause the splice to fail.

 

[NickfromWI]

Gord, thank you for putting the pic back up! I like the disclaimer.

I second what you say about long buries, even with a locked brummell. I look at the locking part as a back up. If the splice/tail were to slip, the brummell is there to keep things together. Sometimes I try to see how much I can get away with when I'm trying out new things. If I splice something and see that the lock is holding all the load, I take that as a sign that the bury/tail needs to be a bit longer.

love
nick

 

[NickfromWI]

I talked to the folks at Yale Cordage today. They said they will hvae their guys do a break test on it. However, the testers are on vacation right now and I guess they'll be back in a week. So expect some results posted in the very near future after that!

love
nick

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

At least 50% of the strength of the splice comes from the tape, imo.
Will the folks at yale duplicate the tape job too?