for those running points Stihl 028

[junkman]

I have a Stihl 028 that I bought new but haven't used it in years. Trees are down in my yard and I need it running. It ran well as far as I remember but has been sitting in its case in the shop for 13 years or so.

I changed the gas, installed a new fuel filter and line then went to start it. There was a horrible recoil when pulling the starter and I would say timing is off. I thought perhaps carbon build up causing too much compression. It turns fine without a plug.

It did run yesterday but not well and mostly wouldn't start because the recoil was so bad it jerked the cord out of my hand. I removed the flywheel and the points are nice and clean but 2 of 3 wires coming from the points are cut. 1 wire goes to the condenser. A black wire and a yellow wire run through a grommet toward the coil and end. There are no terminals on the wire except for where they connect to the points.

I don't use this much and would just like to get it running. Most discussions I've read say to just swap to a modual. I'd prefer to forst hook the wires up and see if it will run. Unfortunately, I don't see information of where the wires connect and shops I've talked to can't remember how points are installed.

There is also a wire on the coil that goes to the kill switch.

So, long way to say...Wire 1 goes from the points to the condenser. Where do wires 2 & 3 connect? I don't see how it would start at all with those wires cut - but it did.

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[295 tramp]

Get a coil off a 029 then disconnect the wires from the points.
Tape them up or pull the flywheel and remove them. The 028 flywheel will work. No need for a module.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Wires 2 and 3 connect to the same terminal, they are the ground out wires that connect from the coil to the on/off switch. When the switch is in the open position it allows spark to the sparkplug, when in the closed position it then grounds out the ignition and spark no longer reaches the sparkplug, thus shutting off the engine.

 

[junkman]

Wires 2 and 3 connect to the same terminal, they are the ground out wires that connect from the coil to the on/off switch. When the switch is in the open position it allows spark to the sparkplug, when in the closed position it then grounds out the ignition and spark no longer reaches the sparkplug, thus shutting off the engine.

So...wire 2 (let's say yellow) up to the coil (primary side) then to ground switch? (There is already a wire from the primary side of the coil to the switch.)

& wire 3 (black) to constant ground - perhaps where the bolt goes through the armature?

It is strange that there are no remnants of the original wires since this is stock and I've owned it since new. It always worked & needed very little maintenance. I wish all my stuff worked as well.

I may also buy the 029 coil since the cam lobe is on the fly wheel and there is apparently a special tool to set points.

 

[295 tramp]

That 029 coil upgrades you to electronic ignition and that's a plus for any points type ignition.
That's just my thoughts on the subject.

 

[junkman]

I found this vid and now think my coil has been changed. It looks like the new one on the right at 1.41.



The original problem is that it would jerk the starter rope hard when trying to start it. I thought that had to be a timing issue but sometimes it would run. Would setting a larger gap change the timing? I had used a regular business card to set the gap which didn't fix the problem. Is there another flywheel that went along with the coil change.

This saw dates back to before 1984 - possibly 1981 or 82.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Them durn gremlins, changing out coils when we aren`t looking!

 

[junkman]

Them durn gremlins, changing out coils when we aren`t looking!

Yeah, it's been sitting for at least 13 years. I ended up moving into town. Also, wood is so cheap around here that the least expensive way to get it is to just say "mon back."

So what do I do about the timing?

 

[pioneerguy600]

Check to make sure the flywheel is lined up with the woodruff key on the crank, if that is correct then change the coil out to a newer electronic module, AKA as a coil but not a coil on its own. The electronic module contains the triggering component as well as the wound coil. The one from a 029 is a known good swap, so is one from any later 028 electronic saw.

 

[junkman]

OK, I'll put this here for others.

1. Early 80s era Stihl 028.
2. Wires to points have been cut.
3. Coil has been replaced. There is no part number on the coil but it is a Stihl branded part made in Japan.
4. Saw ran within the last few days with the parts it currently has.
5. It used to run correctly with the parts it currently has.
6. I conclude that the coil is the correct 028 conversion coil to electronic ignition.
7. Current flywheel PN is 9 1118 400 1205 which I am told by a dealer is the original flywheel used with points.
8. Saw currently jerks the starter cord when pulled which indicates a timing issue.
9. Flywheel was correctly installed.

I will reinstall the flywheel and vary the gap if it still has a timing problem. My next step will be to buy the newer flywheel designed to run with the electronic coil. I have a lead on a used flywheel for $10 + shipping.

Will report back with results.

 

[HarleyT]

Save your money on the flywheel, it won't change anything. The condition you have could easily be explained from an overly rich/partial flooded saw. Or also could be explained by an excess of carbon in the combustion chamber.
I you have the newer electronic coil on it, it should not be connected to anything other than the kill switch, if it is hooked up to any of the old points system, it could be partially grounding it out, so that should be fixed.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Save your money on the flywheel, it won't change anything. The condition you have could easily be explained from an overly rich/partial flooded saw. Or also could be explained by an excess of carbon in the combustion chamber.
I you have the newer electronic coil on it, it should not be connected to anything other than the kill switch, if it is hooked up to any of the old points system, it could be partially grounding it out, so that should be fixed.

Is any of the newer AM modules set up with the spark retard feature to allow easier starting.? I have read where a lot of these AM modules are faulty from the outset.

 

[HarleyT]

It sounds like it has the newer stihl 0000 400 1300 coil on it now. I am not sure I he has this somehow hooked up to the old cond. or something though. A pic or two would be helpful.

 

[junkman]

It sounds like it has the newer stihl 0000 400 1300 coil on it now. I am not sure I he has this somehow hooked up to the old cond. or something though. A pic or two would be helpful.

I how have consistent spark seen by grounding the plug. Pulling the cord feels normal. I removed the points completely and set the flywheel/armature gap at 1 business card. It started once and died. The air filter was off and I saw fuel coming out of the carb. I took the carb apart. The gaskets are pliable and the pump gasket is flexible.

So: everything back together, spark at the plug. Working on fuel next. Specs I've seen say that the base needle adjustment is out ~ 1 turn. I'll begin there.

 

[HarleyT]

Is that coil hooked up to anything but the kill wire?

 

[junkman]

Is that coil hooked up to anything but the kill wire?

No. Only the high tension lead to the plug and the kill wire to the switch are installed. Points and condenser with wires were removed. The spark plug gets a little wet. I visually confirmed that spark occurs when the plug is out and grounded. I would as s/u/me that it continues to spark when installed. Engine doesn't attempt to start with carb screws adjusted from 3/4 turn to 1.5 turns out. I began at 3/4 turns and turned them out in 1/8 turn increments to 1 1/2 turns. No hit at all.

There are vids of saws running without the bar and chain so I took them off for convenience. Can that affect anything? Lawn mowers need the blade to run but I don't think saws are the same

 

[pioneerguy600]

Ok, ...it sounds like the engine has spark, at the right time but the plug is wet. Would the engine be badly flooded and not able to fire through it,as in too rich to start. Sometimes putting in a new plug can get past this but not if its flooding badly.

 

[HarleyT]

Dump out all of the old fuel and take the plug out and pull a few dozen times, dry it out completely.

 

[HarleyT]

Leave it totally dry, and put a new plug in. Pull the rope and see if it still yanks the cord out of your hand. We can isolate things from there.

 

[junkman]

Leave it totally dry, and put a new plug in. Pull the rope and see if it still yanks the cord out of your hand. We can isolate things from there.

I just got back from out of town & had time to look at the saw. This seems to be a case of things that can't all be true at the same time.

Pulled the flywheel and completely removed the points.
Wanted to make sure that the spark I was seeing was in fact good. There is spark even with the plug gap opened to ~1/4".
Followed directions, drained the gas, gaped the coil with a business card, installed a new plug, connected the plug wire and pulled the cord.
Engine cranks normally and I can feel compression when it's turning over.
Pulled the new plug and grounded it. There is spark with the new plug.

Checked spark with choke and also with switch set to "run". There is spark on both. Turned switch off and no spark.
Disconnected kill wire - still have spark

I filled it back with fuel. Saw still would not start or even hit.
I installed carb kit which only included gaskets, fuel pump diaphram, and the needle valve that lets fuel into the bowl.
Adjusted H & L jets out 1 turn.
Saw did not hit. Turned L out to 1-1/4 then 1-1/2
Plug was wet so I know fuel was going in. Saw did not hit.

Drained fuel.
Gave 1 shot of ether & put can back on shelf so I won't be tempted to use it again. Saw did not hit.

All parts except the bar and chain are installed.

Spark plug = New Champion RCJ6Y which is the same one it was running with the last time it ran.

An engine cannot have spark, fuel & compression and not hit. What next?