Sealing endgrain

[bobbobbobbob]

I've been using glue on the plank ends and on bowl blanks for the last 20 years and have achieved good consistent results every time. I don't bother diluting the mixture as it is very inexpensive to begin with. You might try bonding liquid as it is usually the generic name for pva glue or make your own. I currently have about 10 cu meters of oak drying in my shed using this mix on the ends. I air dry oak and kiln dry most everything else.

 

[Pauls_Workshop]

ok thanks. You sound alot like me Kiwi, always wanting to try new ideas and find the better methods. I did find here in the states at Home Depot one can get 5 gallons of TiteBond PVA original glue for about $15 a gallon in that quantity, which is about 2/3rds the cost of the gallons of wax sealer. That might also be able to be watered down somewhat. I'm doing some english walnut that just wants to check no matter what I've tried. I may try just a bit of glue on that next and see how it does. If it doesn't check, I'll know it is better than the other options for me. I'm learning why english walnut just comes in tiny little pieces if you want to buy any. Really hard to keep it together when drying. - Paul

 

[Pauls_Workshop]

I've been using glue on the plank ends and on bowl blanks for the last 20 years and have achieved good consistent results every time. I don't bother diluting the mixture as it is very inexpensive to begin with. You might try bonding liquid as it is usually the generic name for pva glue or make your own. I currently have about 10 cu meters of oak drying in my shed using this mix on the ends. I air dry oak and kiln dry most everything else.

Thanks Bob,bob,bob that is the long term info we need. So sounds like a good option to me. I will try it ! - Paul

 

[Pauls_Workshop]

Looks like around here, can get 1 gallon of the TiteBond original glue for about $16 vs. the Bonding Liquid for about $12 a gallon. I think though the Bonding Liquid is pretty watered down already, so the better deal may be the glue. If the glue can be stretched to make 2 gallons, that would be $16 for two vs about $28 for the liquid wax for one gallon, a much better choice if it works. I have a little bit and will try some next! - paul

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Right now, original Anchorseal cost me $18.40 per gallon, shipped, buying 5 gallons at a time...

I never tried Anchorseal 2.

SR

 

[Pauls_Workshop]

Right now, original Anchorseal cost me $18.40 per gallon, shipped, buying 5 gallons at a time...

I never tried Anchorseal 2.

SR

Yeah 5 gallons is alot though for a hobby millist. Where do you find Anchorseal I? I could not find it anywhere just II which I don't think is that good. - Paul

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I've had no problem keeping it, I just transfer it into a smaller container as needed.

Classic Anchorseal can be bought from the maker... UC Coatings...

SR

 

[Pauls_Workshop]

I've had no problem keeping it, I just transfer it into a smaller container as needed.

Classic Anchorseal can be bought from the maker... UC Coatings...

SR

Thanks, did not know about getting it from UC direct. $92 for 5 gallons shipped there right now. Not terrible at about $18.40 a gallon for original A1 in that quantity. Glue is still cheaper though but just barely, but is locally available and by the gallon. 5 Gallons would last me about 5 years or so at my current milling rates so alot to hold onto. I'm out right now of the Anchorseal II so may try some glue next. My english walnut would develop some checks just weeks after covered in paint or anchorseal II so should see if glue is viable fairly soon after cutting it. - Paul

 

[Czech_Made]

I recently pulled out of storage some of the maple I sealed ends with candle wax and it is far superior to any paint. There was literally no crack to be found, it was definitely worth the pain of dipping it in melted wax (I guess you call it paraffin)

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I cut some birch that was end cracked bad (few pieces had cracked 1/4" wide. Just took a 1-2" cookie off the end to be in none cracked wood.
Normally cut saw logs about 6-8" longer than needed.

 

[Pauls_Workshop]

I recently pulled out of storage some of the maple I sealed ends with candle wax and it is far superior to any paint. There was literally no crack to be found, it was definitely worth the pain of dipping it in melted wax (I guess you call it paraffin)

Good to know. But "dipping" my hardwood slab that weighs about 150 pounds is hard to do! I am not really a Lumberjack I just have milling wanna be dreams about it! The wax method is just harder to do in practice as you have to melt it and such. I think good for smaller pieces though for sure or for lathe chunks. - Paul

 

[Pauls_Workshop]

I cut some birch that was end cracked bad (few pieces had cracked 1/4" wide. Just took a 1-2" cookie off the end to be in none cracked wood.
Normally cut saw logs about 6-8" longer than needed.

Yeah I've got some 18" long end check cracks in some of my english walnut 1 1/8" slabs that were covered liberally with Anchorseal II a year back. I'd be real happy if only had 6" or less cracks to cut off. Maple is really easy, only couple inches with Anchorseal II or paint, but this walnut is something else. I'm just recently doing some red river birch, my first time with birch, so have to see how that does. I painted that. - Paul

 

[Czech_Made]

I wanted to seal endgrain on trailer gate, used piece of candle and plumbers torch to melt it and soak it in the wood. First I was afraid it is gonna burn, but it worked really well.

 

[KiwiBro]

Yeah I've got some 18" long end check cracks in some of my english walnut 1 1/8" slabs that were covered liberally with Anchorseal II a year back. I'd be real happy if only had 6" or less cracks to cut off. Maple is really easy, only couple inches with Anchorseal II or paint, but this walnut is something else. I'm just recently doing some red river birch, my first time with birch, so have to see how that does. I painted that. - Paul

do you have a river or Creek you can leave an unsealed green test slab in for a few weeks? Or a dehumidifying Kiln you could send a test slab to?

 

[Pauls_Workshop]

do you have a river or Creek you can leave an unsealed green test slab in for a few weeks? Or a dehumidifying Kiln you could send a test slab to?

Hi Kiwi, no unfortunately I don't have either, no water and no kiln available. I actually just live on a 1/2 an acre, not much, but get the trees from family and friends and bring them to my place for the milling. I do know alot of the english walnut had stresses in them. I'll mill limbs and branches, not just the trunk, so some of it is from limbs. But in general, this wood is by far the most prone to checking I've ever had so far. I'll be doing the glue test instead of paint but been too busy to do any milling last few weeks. I have now tried two coats of paint though instead of just one and that does make a big difference also. I think one is woefully insufficient, but two may be good enough. One coat of Arborcoat II seems woefully insufficient too. - Paul

 

[wombler]

Some completely left-field thinking here... but has anyone tried clamping the ends of prone-to-checking logs, presumably in addition to end-sealing? Since the problem that end-sealing is meant to correct is seemingly temporary stresses (due to uneven drying rates), I'm thinking that if you clamped the ends while drying, once the whole shebang was dry, the stresses on the ends wouldn't be great enough to rip it all apart. Probably wouldn't work so well on logs, but if you had a high quality length of timber, you'd end-seal on felling/bucking, mill ASAP, then clamp the ends (on both axes) and leave to dry. Perhaps it would contribute to unacceptable warping (the stresses would presumably have to go *somewhere*), but on the other hand, it might work OK.

I'm talking entirely hypothetically and from an inexperienced viewpoint, I was mostly just curious if anyone had tried it, and found it to be an utterly stupid idea.

 

[KiwiBro]

Hi Kiwi, no unfortunately I don't have either, no water and no kiln available. I actually just live on a 1/2 an acre, not much, but get the trees from family and friends and bring them to my place for the milling. I do know alot of the english walnut had stresses in them. I'll mill limbs and branches, not just the trunk, so some of it is from limbs. But in general, this wood is by far the most prone to checking I've ever had so far. I'll be doing the glue test instead of paint but been too busy to do any milling last few weeks. I have now tried two coats of paint though instead of just one and that does make a big difference also. I think one is woefully insufficient, but two may be good enough. One coat of Arborcoat II seems woefully insufficient too. - Paul

Congrats on narrowing down what works best for you.

Maybe you have or can find a kids paddling pool or some other way to make a temporary tank long enough to take a test slab? I haven't tried the total immersion idea with slabs but have with firewood and it certainly dried quick, but I never really paid much attention to the end checking of firewood. At some stage, I'll take a freshly fallen, stressed log, cut it in two and tie one length off in a river for a while and see what happens when it's pulled out and sat next to the other one.

 

[scheffa]

What is the theory behind soaking the timber in water??
We have been dealing logs with left over paint until recent, we buy blocks of paraffin waxand only type not sure of the name, they get mixed 80/20, melt it in a pot on a small camp stove then brush it on. The second wax adds flexibility to the paraffin

 

[Pauls_Workshop]

do you have a river or Creek you can leave an unsealed green test slab in for a few weeks? Or a dehumidifying Kiln you could send a test slab to?

Hi Kiwi, no unfortunately I don't have either, no water and no kiln available. I actually just live on a 1/2 an acre, not much, but get the trees from family and friends and bring them to my place for the milling. I do know alot of the english walnut had stresses in them. I'll mill limbs and branches, not just the trunk, so some of it is from limbs. But in general, this wood is by far the most prone to checking I've ever had so far. I'll be doing the glue test instead of paint but been too busy to do any milling last few weeks. I have now tried two coats of paint though instead of just one and that does make a big difference also. I think one is woefully insufficient, but two may be good enough. One coat of Arborcoat II seems woefully insufficient too. - Paul

Congrats on narrowing down what works best for you.

Maybe you have or can find a kids paddling pool or some other way to make a temporary tank long enough to take a test slab? I haven't tried the total immersion idea with slabs but have with firewood and it certainly dried quick, but I never really paid much attention to the end checking of firewood. At some stage, I'll take a freshly fallen, stressed log, cut it in two and tie one length off in a river for a while and see what happens when it's pulled out and sat next to the other one.

Congrats on narrowing down what works best for you.

Maybe you have or can find a kids paddling pool or some other way to make a temporary tank long enough to take a test slab? I haven't tried the total immersion idea with slabs but have with firewood and it certainly dried quick, but I never really paid much attention to the end checking of firewood. At some stage, I'll take a freshly fallen, stressed log, cut it in two and tie one length off in a river for a while and see what happens when it's pulled out and sat next to the other one.

Interesting idea on the immersion. I'm assuming the idea here would be to relieve the built in stresses without having the drying process affect that part? Explain the concept more if you would. My slabs are often 8' long or so so I would need a big pool to do it.

On the clamping idea above, also interesting. That would "contain" the stresses for the time it is clamped and could allow the drying to complete while separating out the built in stresses. But those stresses would still be there after it is dried or mostly be there. So I think it may still want to crack after the clamps are removed finally. But don't know. I love this free thinking going on here!

To give some idea of the limbs I will cut, I have some that are almost perfect half circles of limb at about 6' radius, 15" width! I ripped those in the middle vertically through, thinking maybe a bed headboard/footboard project or big round table filled in the middle with other wood pieces or something. Like a giant bow for a bow and arrow, but pulled with tensile stress on either end ready to "fire" the arrow. This isn't dried yet but we'll see how that goes. English Walnut is very strong, about 2x Oak, so can grow limbs in all kinds of weird directions and not care much about it. Having said all the above though on the limbs, I've also had bad checking on the main trunk parts too, without much of the residual stresses present there. - Paul

 

[wombler]

On the clamping idea above, also interesting. That would "contain" the stresses for the time it is clamped and could allow the drying to complete while separating out the built in stresses. But those stresses would still be there after it is dried or mostly be there. So I think it may still want to crack after the clamps are removed finally. But don't know. I love this free thinking going on here!

Yes, the built-in stresses would definitely still be there, possibly splitting or contributing to warping. The thing is, those stresses are going to be there no matter how it dries -- sealed, unsealed, kiln, immersed, whatever. The only way to avoid those problems is how the timber is milled: quarter sawn or rift sawn rather than flat sawn, taking account of the orientation of the standing tree to the sun, and accounting for the location of reaction wood. So many things to take into account when trying to get the best possible outcome; I find it fascinating that something as seemingly simple as "turn tree into lumber" has so many nuances.