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splitter tonnage ?

Discussion in 'Firewood, Heating and Wood Burning Equipment' started by Mntn Man, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. bruiser 1

    bruiser 1 ArboristSite Operative

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    Did'nt they recall those Honda Engines!
     
  2. Mntn Man

    Mntn Man AboristSite Guru

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    I bought one last year for $950+ tax. It has been a great investment. I have split at least 10 cords with it. I can move it around easily by hand and it has split everything I needed it to. It has been pushed to the limit on some crotches and green hackberry, however. I figured I'd grab the saw if it can't handle it, but haven't yet. I don't cut too much big stuff, but have cut some mulberry and hackberry up to 26 inches. Usually I get dead ash to about 20 inches and they split easy. I have only had to use it vertically a couple of times. I'm glad I didn't buy the 37 ton, I just don't need it.
     
  3. Wishie22

    Wishie22 ArboristSite Operative

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    If my memory is correct it was in regards of the gas tanks, and Honda will replace at no charge. Ser # located on the recall, just do a search on google. Read that while researching the Husky 22 ton though.
     
  4. Wishie22

    Wishie22 ArboristSite Operative

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    Thanks fishercat.

    Looked at your pics on the firewood equip, of yours. Nice mchine & looks easy to move around by hand if needed.

    The 8hp at the farm is currently pounding through 10 to 20 cords a week, does almost 200 cord a year. He is thinking of rebuilding the motor once mud season really on us:jawdrop:.

    Very impressed by the performance of their products.
     
  5. fishercat

    fishercat Addicted to ArboristSite

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    not sure about a recall.i'll look into it.

    i have the mostly metal GX series,not the black plastic Gc series.i never had an issue with the GC series either.usually starts first pull unless it' in the single digits.mostly because of the hydro fluid.never had a problem with it.i am upgrading my machine since it hasn't sold.i have a 16 GPM pump on the counter,new hydro tank came in this week.i'm thinking of getting the 9 hp Subaru/Robin engine this time.i have a splitter i bought that was missing a few items.the briggs is locked up.i'm taking my old stuff off and using it on there then selling it.
     
  6. 046

    046 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    just scored a low hours Honda 13hp GX motor on craigslist... a new Rexroth 22 gpm hydraulic pump, CL score.

    slowly building up parts for no telling what...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. AKKAMAAN

    AKKAMAAN AboristSite Guru

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    How big "physically" (approx. inches and lbs) is that pump? Hard to read the type plate, but it looks like a variable displacement pump(axial piston with a wash plate) to me. Can i read a 16cm3 on that plate? Thats the max displacement then. Then you will need 5200+rpm to make 22gpm. So the more realistic capacity would be 4gpm/1000rpm. Would be interesting to see a detail picture of that manufacturers ID plate.:popcorn:
     
  8. shansen

    shansen ArboristSite Lurker

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    Energy Valves for Speeco

    Two valves are sold by Energy Mfg. Co., Inc. to Special Products Company, SPEECO.
    They are proprietary to SPEECO and are currently stamped with the SPEECO part numbers:
    390406S0 & 390406A0
    They are set at 3400 +/- 200 PSI @ 2GPM & 3200 +/- 200 PSI @ 2GPM respectively.
    The relief settings for all Energy DSKCVA-200 valves, (logsplitter valves with hydraulic kickout), range from 2000 - 3500PSI. Only the C-908 is sold directly to the public by Energy. However, all of the parts in the valves are the same as shown in the attachment of the C-908.
     
  9. AKKAMAAN

    AKKAMAAN AboristSite Guru

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    Thank you! Great information!
    3400psi at 2gpm! ok, whats the releif pressure when 16gpm is bypassed?
    about 4000+psi???
    Are pumps, cylinders and hoses on the speeco logsplitters also rated for 3400-4000+psi?

    Added on editing!
    If it's an Haldex pump 2-stage, the maximum allowed pressure is 3000psi, factory default setting 2500psi. MTE pumps are 3000psi except 14 and 17gpm that are 3500psi and 22gpm that are 3200psi. So there is no way a Speeco 22 ton can be rated 22 ton with that 3400psi Energy valve and whatever 11gpm pump there is........
    So this whole logsplitter market is so screwed up with FALSE marketing. And they can do it because most people dont understand the background to the numbers. SIMPLE MATH!!
    MOST ALL LOGSPLITTERS ARE OVERRATED ON SPLITTING FORCE!!:chainsaw::chainsaw::chainsaw::chainsaw::chainsaw:
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2009
  10. shansen

    shansen ArboristSite Lurker

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    The pump on the splitter is a 2-stage pump. When it's internal unloader valve setting is reached, (around 500 - 800 PSI), it unloads the low pressure - high volume stage and only the high pressure - low volume stage is doing the work above the unloader valve setting. So the pump is no longer sending 16 GPM, of that's what it's maximum volume really is, to the directional control valve. I can not speak for any other component on the splitter other than the directional control valve as far as maximum rated operating pressure. At 3400 PSI a 4" bore cylinder produces 42725 pounds of output force on extension.
     
  11. AKKAMAAN

    AKKAMAAN AboristSite Guru

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    Well if pump relief is set on 2500psi or what ever less than 3400psi, 42725lbs is not going to happen. 42725lbs is still not 22 tons.
    I say it again logsplitter biz is a "fraud" what the splitting force concerns.
    :sword:
     
  12. wkpoor

    wkpoor Addicted to ArboristSite

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    My neighbor has the 22T Speeco. I need to take off my gauge and put it on his this week. Then we will know.
     
  13. AKKAMAAN

    AKKAMAAN AboristSite Guru

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    Now we are talking...great...when you measure, make sure hold fully extended a few seconds so flow go by-pass over releif valve. Make one check on idling and one on max rpm. You should get little higher pressure on full rpm.

    Is your gauge graded 0-5000psi??
    Do you have a video camera?

    Cylinder is 4" bore diam, capped area will be 4x4x3.14/4=12.56 square inch
    every 100psi will giv us 1256lbs of force which is 0.628 tons
    :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
     
  14. 046

    046 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    been trying to get info on this pump from wholesaler without luck.
    closeup of plate is attached...

    would appreciate any info what this pump was originally designed for.
    thanks,

    [​IMG]

     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2009
  15. AKKAMAAN

    AKKAMAAN AboristSite Guru

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    It is a Rexroth pump. Variable displacement, wash plate type, 250 bar max pressure 16cm3 displacement per rev. Probobly from a mobile application. At 1760 rpm it will give you about 7.5 gpm, BUT this pump type is made for closed center systems, constant pressure unloaded, CPU. Unloaded means it's dropping pressure to a lower level (14bar?)when not operated.
    Call these guy's. They have this pump on their repair list, and I'm sure they can help you identify this pump to 100%, and advice you how to plumb it into your splitter project. You might need some special valves....Good Luck!!

    Nova Hydraulics
    6212 Parliament Dr.
    Indianapolis, IN 46220
    317-322-0242 phone
    317-322-0247 fax
     
  16. kevin j

    kevin j Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I don't recognize the rexroth number directly, but if it is truly a variable piston pump I would pass on it for a logsplitter.
    -A pressure compensated pump is designed for closed center valving.

    -It can be used with open center valving, in that it just runs full stroke all the time and acts like a gear fixed pump. However, most piston pumps need to work against some load or the pistons/slippers start to flutter on the internal swash plate. It needs a load of maybe 200 to 500 psi minimum to keep the slippers down. So cycling a cylinder back and forth with minimal load can eat up the pump. Have seen that several applications on fan and motor drives.

    -PC pump will be less circuit efficiency when using a closed center valving with a log splitter. There is more throttling across the valves when acting at part speed. That is a more complicated topic to explain.

    -Pisotn pumps are more sensitive to case drain pressures, and inlet suction pressures. They can't take the abuse of cavitation like a gear pump.

    -More significantly, if this is 'constant pressure unloading', or more commonly called load sensing, it normally needs a pilot signal to work right. The pump stays at low standby pressure, say 400 psi, against a closed center valve until one of the valves in the system is shifted. The load sensing small pilot signal then tells the pump to compensate to a higher pressure, just enough to move the load. Load sensing is very efficient for energy and reducing sound, but beyond the scope of most homeowner projects.
    It can be defeated and turned into a standard pressure compensated pump by teeing the outlet to the load sensing port, sending the outlet presure back into the LS port, which causes the controller to take the pump to high pressure all the time.


    So, I would not use for log splitter cylinder drive, but if you can drive it from the engine some way and use it to run the clamp cylinder circuits for a processor, log lifter, or other intermittent use cylinder, that is perfect. It is what variable PC pumps are designed for.

    kcj
     
  17. AKKAMAAN

    AKKAMAAN AboristSite Guru

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    Well said Kevin!
    On a quick Google I found this company repairing these pumps...http://www.novahydraulics.com/bosch-models.asp
    I just wanted to pass the whole thing on to next "level"...
     
  18. BIG BEAM

    BIG BEAM ArboristSite Operative

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    How do you figure tonnage? pi r squared times presure?
    3.5" cylinder @ 2500=24040 12 Ton
    DON
     
  19. shansen

    shansen ArboristSite Lurker

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  20. 046

    046 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    WOW!!!

    thanks kevin j and AKKAMAAN.... sure is deluxe to have a few hydraulic experts on board...

    since 7.5 gpm is max on this pump... it's all but useless for my purposes.
    it's probably going on ebay... hopefully someone else can use this pump for what it was designed for. rexroth is brand new and never hooked up, so it should sell.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009

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