Yoder, ecoliner, shovel yarder, cheap yarder+loader

[northmanlogging]

Got a call today... How would you like to log 160 acres...

Well duh...

Only catch is I'll need a yarder and a loader.

anybody got a line on some cheap serviceable units?

Made some calls to the locale equipment folks, lookin at like 150-200k for a yoder, or ecoliner(converted excavator).


Or am I crazy and should run like a maniac?

 

[bitzer]

Sounds like time to head to the bank with a biz plan. You may wanna tuck yer hair up under yer hat for that meeting. Them bank folks get twitchy. Unless you can claim a minority. You part indian Matt?

 

[bnmc98]

There's a guy in Missoula that was selling some line machines on CL recently. dunno if he still is.

 

[northmanlogging]

banks... ick...

 

[Woos31]

Sounds like time to head to the bank with a biz plan. You may wanna tuck yer hair up under yer hat for that meeting. Them bank folks get twitchy. Unless you can claim a minority. You part indian Matt?

That is a minority anymore I think............white male doing everything in his power to work where and how he wants to and earn his sheckles in the woods lol. Through on your corks, tin hat, and best go to town riggin pants and waltz in into that their banker man and get your mo-chine. Nothin ventured nothin gained, cept heart ache and stress and when you get your show set up and running you can show us pictures!

 

[madhatte]

It occurs to me that these guys have a credit union. Maybe give them a call.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Our local banks won't touch loans for forestry equipment.

 

[Skeans]

Anymore a bank won't touch a forestry loan, have you looked at the size of the wood? What the price of moving the size of say at least a 330 or 400 sized shovel with winches? A lot of guys around here have a 568 with drums and they are 120k without fuel in them. Another has a back up 4300 with a 5600 undercarriage because of them drums.

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[northmanlogging]

Still waiting on access to the sale, apparently there is a bridge what needs replacing. But I ass-u-me that its second growth nothing special timber, with the possibility of maybe a few pockets of nice cedar. Its in an area that hasn't be cut for some time so who knows. Don't like to make decisions on stuff I haven't slapped my eyes and boots on.

Made some calls to the local equipment pedelers, and looking at 100-200k for a yoder, mostly on the 300 sized machines, though a smaller cat 225 was available. They really just want too ****ing much for em, and really can't wrap my head around why they need to be so large? dumb maybe?

anyway I've talked to a few folks about getting forestry loans, I have remarkably good credit all things considered. and with something being backed up by a purchase they sound like they would be willing to pony up the cash.

Did find a Skylead yarder fairly close fore either 24000, or 240000? add wasn't exactly clear, but then I would still need a loader... so I'm crossing my fangers and hoping that an old nearly worn out yoder, in the 200 class might come available. And a truck mount koller 501 in Oregon...

Comes down to find something affordable or walk away from this, and continue with plan A of building her up slowly.

 

[northmanlogging]

Anymore a bank won't touch a forestry loan, have you looked at the size of the wood? What the price of moving the size of say at least a 330 or 400 sized shovel with winches? A lot of guys around here have a 568 with drums and they are 120k without fuel in them. Another has a back up 4300 with a 5600 undercarriage because of them drums.

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luckily I don't think its real far from civilization, so moving in shouldn't be more then a few grand, at least to the dirt road part?

 

[northmanlogging]

It occurs to me that these guys have a credit union. Maybe give them a call.

I happen to be a member...

and they have really good rates too!

 

[Gologit]

How about leasing or renting the equipment you need on a cost-share/profit-share basis? Sometimes on a small job you can actually come out better that way than buying the equipment and then having it just sitting....and probably still not paid for...at the end of the job.

Equipment isn't really the biggest problem. The real challenge is finding and keeping a good crew, especially if they know you're just starting out and don't have much of a track record.
Having a good cash reserve for payroll and insurance is a must. A good crew doesn't cost you money, they make money for you...if you can hang on to them. Your lender should already understand this.
Just don't lose sight of the fact that they're not doing you a favor by lending you money. Be absolutely certain that banks consider you an idiot because of what you're doing. Don't prove them right.
You're renting money from them and that, in turn, is how they make money. They'll smile and bring you coffee and be your best new friend but don't forget for a minute that borrowing money is a straight up business deal that they will profit from. You're doing them a favor by using their bank and I think you'll be surprised at how much rates can vary if you shop it around a little.
Go for it. You're still young enough that if things don't work out you can drag up and try again some other time. And what the hell, if you go broke you'll still learn something for the next time you try it. Besides, you'll be in good company. Most loggers I know...including me... have gone broke a time or two. It builds character. More or less.


Edit to add...it's just a personal preference but I always liked taking a line of credit versus a straight loan for operating costs. A straight loan, secured by equipment, is better when you're aquiring machinery.

 

[northmanlogging]

its that whole crew thing that has me really concerned...

 

[Gologit]

its that whole crew thing that has me really concerned...

It should concern you. Crews make or break an operation. That fact that you're concerned is a good sign. You've been in this business enough to know how many different ways things can go wrong. Multiply that by the number of crew you have.

 

[northmanlogging]

part of the reason I would rather go with a yoder, keep the crew small, 2-3 folks, guys I can trust or at least understand their fate for the moment is tied up in this adventure as well.

Part of the appeal of a yoder is that the guy in the cab can chase/and load logs, while the guy in the bushes can hook, and Hook? get the next road ready while yer loading logs...

Hopefully I can find someone that is a decent cutter, spend a day or two cutting, then a day or two yarding... rinse and repeat as necessary.

A proper yarder, you pretty much need at least one other person running a loader to keep the chute clear. A small yarder the chaser is also the engineer, no cab, just wireless controls or ground level levers. so a big yarder you need yet another dude in the cab, so then you might as well get another dude in the brush, and a proper hook tender... gets big fast.

And lets be honest here, a processor is not an option for now, all hand cutting... most folks would run away from.

 

[Gologit]

Can you get the production you need with a yoder? 160 acres isn't a huge job but they might want you to get done in a certain length of time.

You'll know more after you've walked the ground, figured out landings, looked at haul roads, lined up some trucking, and started to figure out the rough costs.

Keep us posted.

 

[northmanlogging]

I'll know in a couple days, prospects as of now don't look good.

 

[Gologit]

If you need any help figuring layouts Madhatte and Slowp would give pretty good advice.
Plus, I hear a rumor that if you ask them nice they'll work for pizza and beer.

 

[Skeans]

luckily I don't think its real far from civilization, so moving in shouldn't be more then a few grand, at least to the dirt road part?

Talking to a guy with permits is nuts like 10k a move for their 568. Our 200 is a 1k to move per bridge.

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[Skeans]

part of the reason I would rather go with a yoder, keep the crew small, 2-3 folks, guys I can trust or at least understand their fate for the moment is tied up in this adventure as well.

Part of the appeal of a yoder is that the guy in the cab can chase/and load logs, while the guy in the bushes can hook, and Hook? get the next road ready while yer loading logs...

Hopefully I can find someone that is a decent cutter, spend a day or two cutting, then a day or two yarding... rinse and repeat as necessary.

A proper yarder, you pretty much need at least one other person running a loader to keep the chute clear. A small yarder the chaser is also the engineer, no cab, just wireless controls or ground level levers. so a big yarder you need yet another dude in the cab, so then you might as well get another dude in the brush, and a proper hook tender... gets big fast.

And lets be honest here, a processor is not an option for now, all hand cutting... most folks would run away from.

Matt a crew is needed that's the biggest for a yarder crew you need minimum of four.

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