1/3 Diameter Notch Rule

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smokechase II said:
A minor scam out west is the use of the Humboldt to leave a 'short stump'.

The way this is legally complied with is any portion of the stump being within ____" of the ground. The bottom of the face meets whatever this requirement is locally, even though most of the stump is above or well above that height.

On most trees, the lowest stump is a conventional face. Exception to this is where the tree is being fell in the same direction as the low side of the stump. (Commonly this is dropping the tree downhill.)
In these situations the Humboldt gets the greatest utilization AND leaves the smallest stump.

********************

Anyone noticed how high the stumps are on AxMen? Those aren't even old growth butt swells.
Administration is everything.
Click to expand...

I cut really low stumps everytime I can. We get a$$ chewed for leaving a high stump, plus it's a laziness and sign of not being capable. Sometimes you have to here and there though. A person can do a kick with their corks around a tree to get your wrap down lower (if on that side, know of guys that cut under the side lean because of comfort or laziness, and have sawed the back corner off and smashed a saw) or with a 32" bar, learn to face a tree with out dogs. LOGS HANG UP ON STUMPS! I'm cutting some Grand Fir for pulp with a few saw logs too, so I am cutting those puppies really low, there's all your $$$.
 
Burvol said:
I cut really low stumps everytime I can. We get a$$ chewed for leaving a high stump, plus it's a laziness and sign of not being capable. Sometimes you have to here and there though. A person can do a kick with their corks around a tree to get your wrap down lower (if on that side, know of guys that cut under the side lean because of comfort or laziness, and have sawed the back corner off and smashed a saw) or with a 32" bar, learn to face a tree with out dogs. LOGS HANG UP ON STUMPS! I'm cutting some Grand Fir for pulp with a few saw logs too, so I am cutting those puppies really low, there's all your $$$.
Click to expand...

Laziness huh? Pretty hard to look up, and real hard to move when you are on your knees. Lower the ground with your caulks?, c'mon.
 
Burvol said:
I cut really low stumps everytime I can. We get a$$ chewed for leaving a high stump, plus it's a laziness and sign of not being capable. Sometimes you have to here and there though. A person can do a kick with their corks around a tree to get your wrap down lower (if on that side, know of guys that cut under the side lean because of comfort or laziness, and have sawed the back corner off and smashed a saw) or with a 32" bar, learn to face a tree with out dogs. LOGS HANG UP ON STUMPS! I'm cutting some Grand Fir for pulp with a few saw logs too, so I am cutting those puppies really low, there's all your $$$.
Click to expand...

I grind them but in some areas I would rather them left high,
nothing like getting hung on a stump you could not see in the tall grass!
In a yard I will cut the tree where it is comfortable, then cut the stump low!
 
ropensaddle said:
I grind them but in some areas I would rather them left high,
nothing like getting hung on a stump you could not see in the tall grass!
In a yard I will cut the tree where it is comfortable, then cut the stump low!
Click to expand...

yup

i normally fell a tree at waist height and get the stump as low to the ground as i can without touching dirt.
 
clearance said:
Laziness huh? Pretty hard to look up, and real hard to move when you are on your knees. Lower the ground with your caulks?, c'mon.
Click to expand...

Ya, just kick a little dirt and needles away for your wrap handle to get down lower, that is what I am talking about. How is that absurd? Are higher stumps common in BC? Yes, there are times when making a high stump is nessacery due to defect or safety, but anyone I have ever cut for wants a low stump. If a guy has to put a back cut in on your knees, then laziness or being out of shape to cut would stand to reason.
 
I sometimes leave the stump 12 foot high cleanup brush and
then hook my winch and up root the joker, then load the trunk
and root ball with my grapple. This saves me fuel to come back for one stump.
 
Study the Tree First

Every tree is different in my book. Study it carefully before you start the saw.

You can get by with a smaller than 1/3 notch if the tree is already leaning hard. If it's dead straight, a 1/3 notch is fine. I usually cut a 1/2 notch, but that's my preference.

Now, if it's leaning the wrong way, start working from the top down and get the weight off the wrong side so that it's not leaning the wrong way. You may still have to use anchor ropes because to stop a monster from defying gravity is a dangerous bear cat. And, use felling wedges.

Tree felling accidents are one of the reasons why a chainsaw sawyer happens to be the second most dangerous occupation that there is. :dizzy:
 
Wood Doctor said:
Every tree is different in my book. Study it carefully before you start the saw.

You can get by with a smaller than 1/3 notch if the tree is already leaning hard. If it's dead straight, a 1/3 notch is fine. I usually cut a 1/2 notch, but that's my preference.

Now, if it's leaning the wrong way, start working from the top down and get the weight off the wrong side so that it's not leaning the wrong way. You may still have to use anchor ropes because to stop a monster from defying gravity is a dangerous bear cat. And, use felling wedges.

Tree felling accidents are one of the reasons why a chainsaw sawyer happens to be the second most dangerous occupation that there is. :dizzy:
Click to expand...

:laugh: use big winch and leave wedges in my bins. I trust my 40000 lb
winch more than any wedge. I have roped and wedged too, I will never
look back, no falling to the side,no snapped ropes stuck wedges or bars.
My large pto winch two speed, will bring over most any tree I see if there
is room to lay it down. I am confident to do just that. I have brought over
some serious leaners,rot outs etc. I feel every pro should have one mounted
on their bucket, oh no stuck trucks, no wrecker bill in ice storm work no
problem that a thorough understanding of pull points and force can not
accomplish.
 
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"My large pto winch two speed, will bring over most any tree I see if there
is room to lay it down. I am confident to do just that."
------------------------
That's good. However, a few years back I also watched a big cottonwood drag a hefty John Deere tractor backwards for 40 feet with a cable attached about two-thirds the way up. The Deere could not begin to hold that tree, winch or no winch. You should have seen what was left of the sawyer's bar and chain, trapped in the felling kerf. :cry:
 
Put a big winch on something and it will move... the tree or the truck... depending on which is heavier. Something has to be the anchor and the biggest mass takes the prize.

Ian
 
Last edited:
A stout wire rope and a winch or an anchored truck can really help and cut down the time needed to drop a small to medium size leaner. Around 28-30" DBH and you had better have a D6 or larger stuck onto that winch. Wire rope can break too, don't forget that. Fittings can fail, so can chokers. I would always start by placing wedges and then have the winch help pull it over, unless the tree is only a foot or so in diameter.

Reading the tree and wedging are basic skills everyone who falls a tree needs. I'm not talking about standing up a leaner, just basic falling. If in doubt call a pro.

BTW go to youtube.com and key in tree falling accidents or tree oops, or some similar key words and prepare to be entertained
 
Wood Doctor said:
"My large pto winch two speed, will bring over most any tree I see if there
is room to lay it down. I am confident to do just that."
------------------------
That's good. However, a few years back I also watched a big cottonwood drag a hefty John Deere tractor backwards for 40 feet with a cable attached about two-thirds the way up. The Deere could not begin to hold that tree, winch or no winch. You should have seen what was left of the sawyer's bar and chain, trapped in the felling kerf. :cry:
Click to expand...

I have not seen a tree here yet that my winch would
not handle. I have air brakes and 23000 lbs of truck
gvw 33000 lbs but I weighed it and that is actual
weight. Pulling over a tree requires lots less than lifting
the tree! I still usually will take some top weight off a leaner
but don't need too.
 
2dogs said:
A stout wire rope and a winch or an anchored truck can really help and cut down the time needed to drop a small to medium size leaner. Around 28-30" DBH and you had better have a D6 or larger stuck onto that winch. Wire rope can break too, don't forget that. Fittings can fail, so can chokers. I would always start by placing wedges and then have the winch help pull it over, unless the tree is only a foot or so in diameter.

Reading the tree and wedging are basic skills everyone who falls a tree needs. I'm not talking about standing up a leaner, just basic falling. If in doubt call a pro.

BTW go to youtube.com and key in tree falling accidents or tree oops, or some similar key words and prepare to be entertained
Click to expand...

Hmmm I have fell many trees with over 50dbh never had a problem
with my winch but many with wedges,and even rope, if I attempt
big wood it is always with my winch.
 
smokechase II said:
A minor scam out west is the use of the Humboldt to leave a 'short stump'.

The way this is legally complied with is any portion of the stump being within ____" of the ground. The bottom of the face meets whatever this requirement is locally, even though most of the stump is above or well above that height.

On most trees, the lowest stump is a conventional face. Exception to this is where the tree is being fell in the same direction as the low side of the stump. (Commonly this is dropping the tree downhill.)
In these situations the Humboldt gets the greatest utilization AND leaves the smallest stump.
.......
Click to expand...

Even I use a Humbolt in such cases, to not waste wood.....:)
 
ropensaddle said:
I have not seen a tree here yet that my winch would
not handle. I have air brakes and 23000 lbs of truck
gvw 33000 lbs but I weighed it and that is actual
weight. Pulling over a tree requires lots less than lifting
the tree! I still usually will take some top weight off a leaner
but don't need too.
Click to expand...

And of course, weight isn't everything. Traction plays a big part, proportionally speaking, depending on the angle of the line tying it to the tree. Of course, weight also comes into play in determining traction, and they're all kind of inter-related.

I was fairly amazed with what we could pull over with our Massey Ferguson 85 (~62 hp, 8000 lb tractor with tires loaded). The gearing and torque of the engine, combined with the foot print and tread depth of the ag tires on the rear wheels, and it does a number on the small trees we've pulled with it... one actually I jumped the gun on, a ~1.5 ft dbh spruce and ended up with a 2 inch hinge. Probably didn't even need much of a relief cut and the tractor could've just pulled the tree over on it's own...
 
When I have to pull a tree over, I use another tree as an anchor point. Wire rope, and a rather large "come-a-long". I wouldn't want my truck (or tractor) ending up on utube.:laugh:

Andy
 

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