Stihl MS441 with secondary chain brake and/or heated handles and carb

[HemiMoparGuy]

Hi All,

This is my first post here. After a lot of research and weighing different options and such, I think I really like the Stihl MS441 to purchase. However, I am not sure they make the exact one I want, as they do not list it exactly on their website. The MS441 C-Q seems appealing with the secondary chain brake that stops the chain in less than 1 second (so they claim.) Anyone have any thoughts, ideas, or comments about this feature?

Also, the Arctic system is quite appealing as well. While I prolly won't be doing all that much cutting in the winter time, ya never know so it would be a cool feature to have the heated handles and heated carb. Anyone have any thoughts, ideas, or comments about this feature?

However, on their website they don't list the Arctic option under the MS441C-Q, so I'm thinking it may not be available in combination with the braking system. Does anyone know anything about availability with both options? And if they are not actually available together, is it possible to modify one saw or the other with the extra parts needed and very roughly what those parts may cost?

I like the braking feature as it seems it would be much safer. Even though I am always very cautious when it comes to dangerous equipment, its still nice to have extra precautions with saftey features.

I like the arctic feature because there is always the possibility of having to go cut up a tree that fell in a winter storm, or the power going out and needing to burn wood until power is restored, or I may just get bored and go out and play in the woods, who knows what could happen...and the heat would be nice.

Any help, advice, comments, etc are very appreciated. I look foward to becoming a widely known member of this forum.

Thank You in Advance,
Eric

 

[windthrown]

The arctic option (VW) is available on all Stihl 440, 441 and 460 models (listed in the catalog). The V option is the carb heater to keep it from icing, and the W is the heated handles. I do not see why it would not be available on the Q model, but for some reason it may interfere with the Q braking system, or vice verse. Personally I am not a fan of the Q system. It has a larger trigger grip lock. I have had several instances of kickback and instinctively I pop the chain brake with my left hand knuckles. I do not see the need for the automated brakes. But then, I also figure that if it is below freezing outside (19 degrees here now and 18 inches of snow on the ground) , it is not a good time to be cutting using a chainsaw either. But that's my opinion. I would go for the plain Jane 441 myself and spend the money an a 3/4 wrap handle and some loops and chaps.

 

[Lakeside53]

It's not available combined... Yes you could modify a C-Q to arctic, but it would cost several hundred $. Arctic to C-Q? nope...

Just buy the Arctic model, and forget the C-Q... It's not needed....
If you want to stop the chain, snap the brake forward with your wrist.

 

[HemiMoparGuy]

Just buy the Arctic model, and forget the C-Q... It's not needed....
If you want to stop the chain, snap the brake forward with your wrist.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. I know I'd never really NEED the extra brake, just thought it'd eb a cool feature. I mean, I have gotten by for years with saws without them...also withou the hand warmers too. But I am a kind of a sucker when it comes to cool features. I've gotta be the only moron I know who buys a $45,000 half ton truck knowing full well I am gonna beat the snot out of it using it as a work truck. But I HAD to have the Infinity stereo, the power seats, heated towing mirrors, etc. Oh well, its just money, can't take ti with me when I go.

Thanks for the suggestions

Eric

 

[SawTroll]

It's not available combined... Yes you could modify a C-Q to arctic, but it would cost several hundred $. Arctic to C-Q? nope...

Just buy the Arctic model, and forget the C-Q... It's not needed....
If you want to stop the chain, snap the brake forward with your wrist.

Exactly!!!!:agree2:


Forget the C-Q!

 

[SawTroll]

The arctic option (VW) is available on all Stihl 440, 441 and 460 models (listed in the catalog). .....

Also the 361, 260 and 660 - but maybe not in the US.


Up here, they don't even offer the 460, 441 or 660 without heated handles, except for the Logosol 660.

 

[Bowtie]

My 361 had the secondary chain brake. I HATED it. PITA to roll chain while sharpening until I put a zip tie hold down on the secondary lever. Plus, when I would finish a cut the damn brake would engage. I unhooked the brake linkage for the secondary chain brake, but kept the lever operational for the throttle interlock on the handle.

 

[HemiMoparGuy]

My 361 had the secondary chain brake. I HATED it. PITA to roll chain while sharpening until I put a zip tie hold down on the secondary lever. Plus, when I would finish a cut the damn brake would engage. I unhooked the brake linkage for the secondary chain brake, but kept the lever operational for the throttle interlock on the handle.

Never thought of it like that. Good thing I posted in here, I may have made a huge mistake. It would definitely suck to file the chain. Also like Windthrown said, the grip is a lot bigger which would prolly cause some extra fatigue in the hand. So, I'm sold, no C-Q. Too many negative comments and not a single good comment.

BTW, does anyone have any clue as to how much the arctic option runs? Also any experience with it? While I am sure it's nice and all, the amount of time I will be using the saw in the winter, I could prolly just wear an extra pair of gloves if my fingey's get cold. But if it doesn't cost too much more, and if I get feedback that it is worth it, I will definitely go for it.

Also, I have sort of picked out an aresenal of saws. Just want some input as to if I am thinking irrationally or not. While my typical use may be not much different than just a home owner, I don't want a junk saw. I don't plan to cut up fire wood. The only thing I really need a saw for is to cut down trees that are fallen and/or dead in the woods and trimming limbs near the house, barn, and driveway, etc. However, I do want a nice saw because I plan to move in the near future and will need to clear some land to build a house. Even though I will prolly rent a dozer and go through knocking the trees down for the building lot, I still have to cut it all up and move it to a burn pile. Also, there is the possibility that I will buy some other land to develop it with houses. So it could see quite a bit of use.

Does a 441 seem like a good choice for me? I'm also thinking of a 192T for the small trimming stuff that it'd be a lot easier to have a smaller saw. And thinking a 260 for a backup/extra saw incase I have someone willing to help.

Still not sure about the 260 though, cuz I do have an 029 that I am rebuilding. Ended up with a scoured cylinder due to a bad fuel mixture. The cylinder looked fine, cuz it appeared that only the piston rings melted to the wall, so I used emery cloth and smoothed it down and put a new piston and rings in. However, only getting about 70 psi compression, so obviously I had to take too much off the cylinder to make it smooth, that it doesn't have enough compression now. I had to take that chance because at the time, a new psiton was $30 and a new cylinder/piston kit was $200. So I tried the $30 option first, but now I see I can get an aftermarket cyl/pis kit for $75, so I am considering that and use the 029 as my backup/extra saw. But also still considering the 260 for th backup/extra and the 029 as a backup/extra/backup/extra.

I have read a lot of bad things about the 029 and midrange/homeowner saws in general in this forum and other similar. However, I LOVED the 029. It failed due to my inexperience, and my dad being too cheap to buy the Stihl oil in the little jars that saw mix with 2.5 gallons of gas. Instead he threw me the saw and told me there were a bunch of open quarts of 2 cyc oil and to go outside and cut up some trees. This was oil left over from when he finally made the switch to Polaris oil for th quads and sleds, and he wanted to use it up. Ok, fine, but why didn't he go buy 1 little jar then use it as a measuring cup instead of both of use estimating the amount of oil to pour in the can. Sure, if you do it ALL the time, its easy to estimate, but doing it 3 times a year?? Stupid on his part...cuz had I even known they made the little jars for exact measurment, I woulda gone out and bought one for this purpose. Anyway, despite al the bad I have heard about homeowner saws, I LOVED the 029, it sold me on Stihl. So I can only imagine how much I will love a Pro grade saw. Of course I should saw I loved the 029 when the only other saw I used was McCulloh Eager Beaver that eventually burned up the clutch, and would cost almost as much as my dad paid for the saw.

Anyway, I know my post is kinda long and whatnot but looking for advice from the pro's. I originally was considering the 361, but moving to the 441 seems like I am getting A LOT more saw for $200 extra. And still debating the 260 or just deal with the 029 for backup. And do I really need the 192T for small trim work. If I just have a few limbs to trim back, I won't wanna bust out the 15 lbs 441, I just think it'd be easier to have a small saw for the light work. But I guess the light work prolly won't come along all that much either, so it wouldn't be much inconvenience to pull out the 441. Also, that might be a good selling point on the 361 as well, little smaller, $200 cheaper, and doesn't almost require me to spend $350 on the 192T, so technically, the 441 is like $600 more than the 361. Any input??

Thanks for the great advice so far, please keep it coming

Eric

 

[windthrown]

Also the 361, 260 and 660 - but maybe not in the US.

Nope.

 

[scotclayshooter]

My 361 had the secondary chain brake. I HATED it. PITA to roll chain while sharpening until I put a zip tie hold down on the secondary lever. Plus, when I would finish a cut the damn brake would engage. I unhooked the brake linkage for the secondary chain brake, but kept the lever operational for the throttle interlock on the handle.

My 036 is a QS and i like it.
And I like it for sharpening a chain i usually click the brake on to sharpen the normal saws.

 

[2dogs]

The arctic option (VW) is available on all Stihl 440, 441 and 460 models (listed in the catalog). The V option is the carb heater to keep it from icing, and the W is the heated handles. I do not see why it would not be available on the Q model, but for some reason it may interfere with the Q braking system, or vice verse. Personally I am not a fan of the Q system. It has a larger trigger grip lock. I have had several instances of kickback and instinctively I pop the chain brake with my left hand knuckles. I do not see the need for the automated brakes. But then, I also figure that if it is below freezing outside (19 degrees here now and 18 inches of snow on the ground) , it is not a good time to be cutting using a chainsaw either. But that's my opinion. I would go for the plain Jane 441 myself and spend the money an a 3/4 wrap handle and some loops and chaps.

I don't think you meant exactly what you said. A kickback is so fast and so violent there is no way a human can react to it. Sure there are minor kickbacks that happen esp when boring but a full power kickback is more than anyone can handle even with the best of technique. That is why chain brakes are built the way they are- to use inertia to set the brake. I have never been injured by a kickback but a couple of times when a log has squeezed the bar a sent the chainsaw pushing back towards me it has left a bruise. The fact that the chain brake handle can be acuated by the wrist is great but that is really the secondary braking system on a saw. Regardless, try to keep the thumb wrapped!

 

[windthrown]

I don't think you meant exactly what you said. A kickback is so fast and so violent there is no way a human can react to it. Sure there are minor kickbacks that happen esp when boring but a full power kickback is more than anyone can handle even with the best of technique. That is why chain brakes are built the way they are- to use inertia to set the brake. I have never been injured by a kickback but a couple of times when a log has squeezed the bar a sent the chainsaw pushing back towards me it has left a bruise. The fact that the chain brake handle can be acuated by the wrist is great but that is really the secondary braking system on a saw. Regardless, try to keep the thumb wrapped!

Nope, I ment what I said. Yah, kickback is fast, but so is the left hand on the top handle of a saw to the chain brake. Palm if it is slow, knuckles if it is fast. All you have to do is let go of the top handle and the saw will push into your left hand, and set the chain brake. Yah, that actually happens. I actually practice playing with kickback if I have not been out sawing a lot recently for a few times, start a bore cut, or top of the bar cut. Get it going good, under control, and with a firm grip knowing that it is going to jump. Also keep the bar plane away from your head and body cutting from the side. During my long hour cutting days, I typically got a good kickback once or twice a day. A few times they were rapid and violent, and in all cases, I have reacted to them, wondering how I did it. Usually the bar is about a foot from my hard hat brim by the time I react to the inertia of the saw and get it under control.

Kickback control is one of several reasons that I like a lighter smaller saws, like the 361. It is far more contrllable for me in these situations, than say a 460 or a 660. I also learned to cut with my dad's Homelite that did not have a chain brake. Neither did any of my Macs, or the Olympyk. They were more dangerous toys back then. For me I think that the Q braking system is overkill. Chain brakes are also overrated in my view, and I use them less and less as I get older. I never set the chain brake to start a saw, for example. I use it only when I set it down while running, walk with the saw running, or hand it off to someone while running. Or to stop the chain in a reaction situation. I test it after starting as well. I also drop start my saws. I think it is far safer to do that, as you are balanced in that position, and not on the ground, leaning toward the saw in an akward position.

Unless some OSHA geek is around... but being a private woodland owner, that is never an issue.

 

[7sleeper]

....While my typical use may be not much different than just a home owner, I don't want a junk saw. I don't plan to cut up fire wood. The only thing I really need a saw for is to cut down trees that are fallen and/or dead in the woods and trimming limbs near the house, barn, and driveway, etc. ....
...Does a 441 seem like a good choice for me? I'm also thinking of a 192T for the small trimming stuff that it'd be a lot easier to have a smaller saw. And thinking a 260 for a backup/extra saw incase I have someone willing to help.

cuz I do have an 029 that I am rebuilding

Also, that might be a good selling point on the 361 as well, little smaller, $200 cheaper, and doesn't almost require me to spend $350 on the 192T, so technically, the 441 is like $600 more than the 361. Any input??


Eric

Dear Eric

Since you have a 290 in the rebuilding department I would recomend a little more power in the 441/440/044 area. If you want a one saw plan(did I just say that I must be sick!) and keep the 290 as a backup I would recomend a 361. It will probably do almost all you ask from it and if the real big stuff come along rent a 460/660/880 just for knocking down!
It might be a bad idea but simply to ad the best bang for the buck idea check out the Dolmar 7900! Not much more pricewise than a 361 but in the 460 league!

Good luck and merry Christmas from Austria

7sleeper

 

[windthrown]

Well, from experience, if you have a 361 around, you are likely not to use the 290 much. Made a great backup saw. But then I got the second 361 as a backup saw, so the 290 is going back to the ranch. The 290 is nearly the same power and size as the 361. The 441 would give you a lot more saw range, with a 2 saw plan as it were. But the 441 is only 1 pound more than the 290, and a lot less buzzy. So the 290 would still be a backup saw for that saw as well.

Damn... which saw to buy? Deja Goo all over again. :monkey:

 

[Wortown Mick]

Id steer away from the 441 in general.

Grab a 440 or 460, the 441 will be around in years but you wont be able to find a new 460.

cq = junk, a normal chain brakes fine . If you need a cq system you shouldnt be running pro saws. Its good you asked so we could steer you.

Arctic kits never a bad thing. The carb heater keeps you goin in subzeros.
Heated handles are semantics, if you have poor circulation , maybe arthritis or some other condition then yeah. But as a normal able bodied man you should be fine with gloves till its too cold to work.


If you like stihl and thats your dealer support base, go for it.

Everyone here will point to the 7900 like it cures cancer. It doesnt.
It cuts wood , sure, and is designed well, sure but its a notch below stihl and husky pro saws. Needs a filter upgrade out of the box.

 

[7sleeper]

Damn... which saw to buy? Deja Goo all over again. :monkey:

Mon ami ju sui horrifiee. C'est la deja vu!

:hmm3grin2orange:

no offense

Bon Noel

7sleeper

 

[Peacock]

The MS441 is my favorite firewood saw. I've used all the comparable saws from Stihl and Husky and prefer it to any of them.

I'd be amazed if you can find any discernible difference in cutting speed between it and a 460 in wood under 20". I can't.

 

[Wortown Mick]

Oh no doubt.
Ill spare calling it mean names like porky and piggy and such and just state that the real saws wont be availiable in another 2 years. Thats fact.

If it aint broke don fix it. Chainsaws kill trees who cares about their emissions. Should make saws exempt by default.

Truth be told your cutting speed really comes into play over 20" anyhow.


The MOST valid point is the 441 is never anythin more.
You can turn a 460 into a big bore or woods ported flinger of chips. The 441.. well I guess you can probably put square chisel on it.

 

[HemiMoparGuy]

You can turn a 460 into a big bore or woods ported flinger of chips. The 441.. well I guess you can probably put square chisel on it.

Makes perfect sense, but I am debating between the 361 and 441, only because the 441 is A LOT more saw for $200, even though it seems like more of a saw than I need...so a 460 is a lot more saw than I need.

While I am by far not the most enviromentally friendly person, I think it would be a good thing to have a "cleaner" running saw. It should be cleaner inside the engine, which would improve performance and life of engine, and also, I am standing right over top of the saw, so breathing slightly cleaner exhaust is kind of appealing too.

I dunno, so many decisions, so little time...Heck with it, I'll buy every saw Stihl makes:greenchainsaw:

 

[Wortown Mick]

Makes perfect sense, but I am debating between the 361 and 441, only because the 441 is A LOT more saw for $200, even though it seems like more of a saw than I need...so a 460 is a lot more saw than I need.

While I am by far not the most enviromentally friendly person, I think it would be a good thing to have a "cleaner" running saw. It should be cleaner inside the engine, which would improve performance and life of engine, and also, I am standing right over top of the saw, so breathing slightly cleaner exhaust is kind of appealing too.

I dunno, so many decisions, so little time...Heck with it, I'll buy every saw Stihl makes:greenchainsaw:

Dont buy more saw than you need man. Doesnt make good sense.

The 361 is a great saw, why not buy one then pick up a used 660 or 394 to take up shelf space till you need a big bar. I dont know how much cutting you do but ive found myself using alot of 394's lately.

346 small. 372 mid. 394 big
You can skip the mid size saw if youve got upper body strength.