VT warning.

[beastmaster]

I recently switched to using the VT. I love it, but can see where less experienced climbers could run into problems as its merits are also its faults. Assuming I can't be the only dummy out there, I want to share a potentially dangerous problem I have had with the VT. I use a three holed micro pulley, hooking both my carabiners to it. On the end of my climbing line i tie the carabiner on with a fishermens knot(or whatever its being called) Here lies the problem. The knot on the end of my climbing line will often times interfere with the VT so it doesn't grab. This is a pain in the rear at times but easily fixed, but I see how it could be a potential dangerous problem. I have a new spliced climbing line on my list, and that should solve the problem. Just wanted to throw that out there as a warning to be aware of. Other then that the VT is a great climbing knot.

 

[Blakesmaster]

I recently switched to using the VT. I love it, but can see where less experienced climbers could run into problems as its merits are also its faults. Assuming I can't be the only dummy out there, I want to share a potentially dangerous problem I have had with the VT. I use a three holed micro pulley, hooking both my carabiners to it. On the end of my climbing line i tie the carabiner on with a fishermens knot(or whatever its being called) Here lies the problem. The knot on the end of my climbing line will often times interfere with the VT so it doesn't grab. This is a pain in the rear at times but easily fixed, but I see how it could be a potential dangerous problem. I have a new spliced climbing line on my list, and that should solve the problem. Just wanted to throw that out there as a warning to be aware of. Other then that the VT is a great climbing knot.

I noticed that same issue when I upgraded to the hitchclimber pulley as well. It also interfered with my rappels by not allowing me to take enough friction off my VT in order to really zing down the line. This is why I just got a splicing kit so I can get rid of the knot altogether.

 

[Treetom]

I've found that with the VT, even with factory eye splices, has a tendency to lose it's grip when tension is released for a while. In my experience, not so much with bee line as with technora prusiks. A finicky knot, indeed.

 

[tree MDS]

I've found that with the VT, even with factory eye splices, has a tendency to lose it's grip when tension is released for a while. In my experience, not so much with bee line as with technora prusiks. A finicky knot, indeed.

A little finicky I suppose, but worth it to me. I actually got to do quite a bit of climbing with the HC/VT this week. I must say, I'm glad I went to the trouble to switch over - and it really didnt take me that long to get fairly used to it. I'm using like five wraps on the top: so it looks like four when loaded and working for a while. I'm really not all that interested in the self tailing idea, so I suppose the swab would work too...I gotta play with that sometime again.

I found the only time it doesnt grab is after I've pulled alot of line through it, like to advance my line a few pole sections. Just gotta be aware and reset it quick, thats all.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

I have tried so many knots, briefly, but in the end I always come back to my good old Blake's hitch. If it ain't broke-----

 

[TDunk]

I ran into the same problem when i switched over to the hitch climber also. It really interfered with the distel, so now i'm on the schiwabash (sp?)

 

[Blakesmaster]

Yeah, it's a finicky knot but I've climbed on it for some time now with no problems until I introduced the hitchclimber pulley. Like beast said,

I use a three holed micro pulley, hooking both my carabiners to it. On the end of my climbing line i tie the carabiner on with a fishermens knot(or whatever its being called) Here lies the problem. The knot on the end of my climbing line will often times interfere with the VT so it doesn't grab.

, the end of your climb line needs a spliced eye or your fisherman's knot will sit right on your vt and jam up the works. Pain in de balls.

 

[oldirty]

hey blakesmaster and beastmaster.

are you using the top and bottom holes with the hitchclimber?

the hitchclimber works best with a spliced eye but i think i might be familiar with your issue.

your termination knot (scaffold knot because its terminating, double fisherman if you are marrying the line) is pinching the knot open when you unload it on an downward (think hip thrust) pull.

move the termination biner down a hole so you leave the top hole open. this puts the knot just below (barely, you still need to take a look when you make a move and want to stop for a second just to be sure) the prussic.

i need to see your rig but i was running into what sounds like the same issue when i made the switch to the HC as i wasnt using a spliced eye on it.

hope that helps.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Makin' go out in the rain to get my #### huh, od? Gimme a minute, I'll get a pic up.

 

[TDunk]

Makin' go out in the rain to get my #### huh, od? Gimme a minute, I'll get a pic up.

It aint rainin' out that hard. LOL

 

[Blakesmaster]

It aint rainin' out that hard. LOL

Haha, no I didn't melt. You can see my set up in the first pic, in the second and third pic you can see how the friction hitch gets bunched up under the fisherman's knot when taking in slack regardless of what hole you use on the pulley. Not a big deal I just wasn't quite ready to marry myself to a splice'd climbing line yet but there's one right here so no biggie..

And like I said before that fisherman's can bump your knuckles when descending pinching your hand a bit between each end of your rope and make it a pain to really zing.

 

[Bermie]

I run just about the same setup as you, and ran into the same issues.

I have dropped the top biner down to the second hole...for me it made a big difference, the VT now stays above my attachment knot...most of the time...I do have to keep a weather eye on it, but it is much more secure than being in the top hole.
The ultimate fix is as you say, a spliced eye for the attachment side...working on that...

 

[Blakesmaster]

I don't use spliced ropes or spliced tress cords.

I tie an anchor hitch to a separate biner than my hitch cord and micro pulley is on. I've never had a problem with the VT. Using a separate biner puts the anchor hitch maybe four or five inches below the tress cord. Both biners go on the bridge of my Butterfly 1.




/

I'd considered doing that too, Treeco, but then I got pissed off that I'd just spent all that money on a HCP and got no benefits, so I ordered a splicing kit. Should be smooth sailing now.

 

[Blakesmaster]

I run just about the same setup as you, and ran into the same issues.

I have dropped the top biner down to the second hole...for me it made a big difference, the VT now stays above my attachment knot...most of the time...I do have to keep a weather eye on it, but it is much more secure than being in the top hole.
The ultimate fix is as you say, a spliced eye for the attachment side...working on that...

To be completely honest I only tried it on the middle hole on my HC for a minute or two and never really gave it a chance but wasn't initially convinced. If I wasn't switching to spliced rope tomorrow, I'd give it another try.

 

[tree md]

I am not using a HC or a any pulley for that matter so I may be way off base. I did away with the pulley and just use a boat swivel snap to advance the knot and tend slack. I had to play around with the length and I think the HRC needed to break in but once I got it tweaked it works almost like a mechanical device. Never have any problems with it slipping anymore and it is super responsive. Just as Treeco advised me it would be.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Haha, no I didn't melt. You can see my set up in the first pic, in the second and third pic you can see how the friction hitch gets bunched up under the fisherman's knot when taking in slack regardless of what hole you use on the pulley. Not a big deal I just wasn't quite ready to marry myself to a splice'd climbing line yet but there's one right here so no biggie..

...

The first "Misconfiguration" picture on page 15 of THE HITCH CLIMBERS' GUIDE TO THE CANOPY (Link below) is titled "Knotted termination interfering with correct hitch function"

It looks very similar to your configuration. Treemagineers recommends using a tight-eye termination or a long-eye 'banded' termination, which should solve your hitch interference issue.

BTW, I know a 'knotted' termination method that may also solve the problem - if you're interested.

http://www.treemagineers.com/downloads/hitch_climbers_guide.pdf

 

[beastmaster]

Singlejack
I built my system from scratch so I never seen the,"hitch climbers guide", vary informative. I can see how a sling would eliminate the problem of the termination knot interfering with the Vt.
I'm not real keen on having more,"links in my chain". I would be interested in the knotted termination method you mentioned. Thanks.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Singlejack
I built my system from scratch so I never seen the,"hitch climbers guide", vary informative. I can see how a sling would eliminate the problem of the termination knot interfering with the Vt.
I'm not real keen on having more,"links in my chain". I would be interested in the knotted termination method you mentioned. Thanks.

OK, I'll take some pix and post them as soon as I get a chance.

Jack

 

[Blakesmaster]

The first "Misconfiguration" picture on page 15 of THE HITCH CLIMBERS' GUIDE TO THE CANOPY (Link below) is titled "Knotted termination interfering with correct hitch function"

It looks very similar to your configuration. Treemagineers recommends using a tight-eye termination or a long-eye 'banded' termination, which should solve your hitch interference issue.

BTW, I know a 'knotted' termination method that may also solve the problem - if you're interested.

http://www.treemagineers.com/downloads/hitch_climbers_guide.pdf

Hey man, thanks for the research. I'll look into that but I'm pretty well pumped 'bout the spliced lines right now.

 

[tree md]

The first "Misconfiguration" picture on page 15 of THE HITCH CLIMBERS' GUIDE TO THE CANOPY (Link below) is titled "Knotted termination interfering with correct hitch function"

It looks very similar to your configuration. Treemagineers recommends using a tight-eye termination or a long-eye 'banded' termination, which should solve your hitch interference issue.

BTW, I know a 'knotted' termination method that may also solve the problem - if you're interested.

http://www.treemagineers.com/downloads/hitch_climbers_guide.pdf

Hey singlejack, lemme get one of those beers...