I love my job, BUT...
- Thread starter JohnnyBoy1986
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JB, not everyone is a saw buff and appreciates oldies. The majority on this site, including myself, will find that 041 a nice saw and probably have no problem spending the money to make this saw run again.
But for many homeowners, this is just an old saw that isn't worth much, and certainly wouldn't like to invest in the repair you did. Nowadays, you can have a Stihl MS170 over here for a little more money, so that's what many choose over repairing an old saw I guess.
You have to look at incoming equipment for repair through the eyes of the owner, not through the ones from the saw buffs on AS. It's a good thing to ask some questions to find out about the customers expectations before you start to work on them.
Now if he really thought the saw was wearth 60$ only, I'd jumped on it immediately . But since he decided to keep it, he probably didn't mean what he said
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Rftreeman
Addicted to ArboristSite
these will be the ones to fuss most of the time......
I also have a question, what is involved in a "tune up" of a chainsaw?
I don`t know if JB handled this service job just the way it should have gone down, it seems to vary depending on the area you work in. The age of the customer and how much he is exposed to the real world, it has already been mentioned. So it seems that an up front estimate and a call before work is carried out is the better means of handling repair work. I myself give an estimate before even looking at the saw, if the owner balks at it then he can take his saw and leave. If I get the go ahead and can fix it for less than the estimate the customer is happy, so am I. If I see it is going to run over the estimate I call and get an ok or not. Saves a lot of argument and hard feelings after the fact. On the up side I also get many good saws from owners that don`t want to put much money into any saw or equipment because they can buy a new saw or mower or what have you at Walmart for close to or less than the repair bill. If a customer said to me its only worth $60. then I would offer them $70. and if they bit on it then the customer is happy and I would also be happy. I myself would have paid the $150. and thought I got fair return for my money, but then again I know what an 041 in good shape is really worth, the quality of the machine cannot be compared to the $150. Wild Thing in my books but the customer sees a shiny new saw, knows very little other than it is new and it is shiny, at least for now.
Pioneerguy600
Pioneerguy600
Dan_IN_MN
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It could have been worse!
Years ago, my dad was active in upholstery. He did it all. A guy brought his boat in and told the story that he was redoing it from bow to stern. Then he said he wanted a quality seat job done.
In my dad's eyes, this gave him the go ahead and do the job.
The guy returned and my dad gave him the final bill. I don't remember how much it was. Probably $150.00 LOL! Anyways..... the guy said.... "I pay $10.00 for a boat seat job. Sue me if you want!"
My dad took the $10.00 knowing that it would cost him more than the $150.00 to get the $140.00 out of him.
That was the best $140.00 training lesson he got to get things in writing.
The good thing here is the guy paid!
It looks like experience will always have a job of teaching us!
Dan
Years ago, my dad was active in upholstery. He did it all. A guy brought his boat in and told the story that he was redoing it from bow to stern. Then he said he wanted a quality seat job done.
In my dad's eyes, this gave him the go ahead and do the job.
The guy returned and my dad gave him the final bill. I don't remember how much it was. Probably $150.00 LOL! Anyways..... the guy said.... "I pay $10.00 for a boat seat job. Sue me if you want!"
My dad took the $10.00 knowing that it would cost him more than the $150.00 to get the $140.00 out of him.
That was the best $140.00 training lesson he got to get things in writing.
The good thing here is the guy paid!
It looks like experience will always have a job of teaching us!
Dan
JB: as others have stated, you might have better served the customer by giving him an updated estimate before the rebuild. That's small potatoes, though. What I want to know is how much do you want for that 041?
Jerry, good post.
I have been wondering sometimes about how the repair shops handle saw repairs when your work is going to exceed clearly the estimate you gave the customer.
For example, last week I got a nice Husky 44, that had still good compression, but it obviously hadn't run for 5 years or so, judging by the dust it had collected.
The previous owner said it wouldn't idle after running it. My first take at it was a fuel supply or carb issue, so I assumed it would take me an hour or so to get it running again.
- checked fuel line
- checked carb
- good overall cleaning
it would run but die again quickly. Had to richen it and turn idle up to keep it running.
- checked carb again, no improvement.
then pressure test it : remove clutch and oil pump, remove flywheel, setup for pressure testing. Air leak crank seal flywheel side.
The cause was very different than my original estimate and a lot more work.
How do handle such cases ? Phone the customer and tell him it's gonna cost a lot more ? If he decides to dump it, how do you recover the work already performed ?
Just curious here.
Fish
Tree Freak
That is the real headache on working on 2-cycles, which is why many
small engine shops shy away from them. Going through the fuel system
should cure it, but if it doesn't.................well.........
call them back, tell them it will be higher, they are already thinking it is too much, so many shops/guys eat a lot of labor, the successful shops
charge so much for the carb rebuild that they have some room for testing,
and if it runs more, well tough, it just does...
small engine shops shy away from them. Going through the fuel system
should cure it, but if it doesn't.................well.........
call them back, tell them it will be higher, they are already thinking it is too much, so many shops/guys eat a lot of labor, the successful shops
charge so much for the carb rebuild that they have some room for testing,
and if it runs more, well tough, it just does...
JohnnyBoy1986
ArboristSite Operative
it is difficult to keep an estimate together unless you know EXACTLY what is wrong, a simple diagnosis of "it doesnt run" can mean many different things. This gentleman was very nice at the way he dropped the two saws off, they were used on a farm where the house and shop were heated with firewood. (i probably should have taken the time to write the 100% history of all this down first but i wasnt thinking clearly lol) the gentleman was sort of an older fellow, but he had young appearing non-english speaking help to work the saws, but that's besides the point. When he left the saw, he praised how good it used to be when it ran and said "get it running, fix whatever it needs and tune it up good", i take it upon my self to say i guess i read him wrong. i made the decision to think the ways i did, use my own discretion and reasoning against better judgment to call anyways (like i usually do) and get the 100% to go ahead. in the end I have taken this as a great learning experience, im not angry at him and even tho the guy blew up i wouldnt mind a second shot at performing work for him, that time around i would defenitly know better! lol. Im more shocked than anything, make no mistake i didnt like his actions, but from his perspective i can understand somewhat and thats what counts, customer basis and service.
Most customers are stupid and a good chunk of em are fulla **** liars. Hit them up front with a diagnosis fee, run tests and tell em the estimate and apply that fee to the total if they wanna repair it. Thats the best way to do it. It covers your time and it lets the customer decide what they wanna do w/o surprises. Even still you get bonehead customers that need to be six feet deep talkin smack about the estimate. Well if ya dont like the estimate, by god dont get the work done! Whats the problem? :monkey:
Brmorgan
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Well of course an 041 in that condition is worth the work, but not to everyone unfortunately! Just a question though - was the ignition shot, or did you just replace everything in the interest of long-term reliability? If it was working acceptably to begin with, you might have overstepped a bit, though I do agree that one man's opinion of "do what you need" can be a lot different than another's. I'm the type that likes to run something until it fails before replacing with new though (in general).
This is why I always make sure to tell anyone working on something (whether saw or car/truck or whatever) of mine how much they can put into it before they need to contact me for additional go-ahead. I'd rather be notified first and possibly have the work delayed a day or two than come in to find a bill two or three times what I expected.
Years ago when I was a kid my dad took his old 1964 Chrysler 8hp outboard to a local shop to have the points looked at and plugs replaced, since the ignition was getting a little spotty at higher RPM. That's all the service order was for, and no "do what you have to" permission was given. When we showed up to pick it up, they had not only replaced the points, but both coils as well, and wanted hundreds of dollars for a service that was supposed to cost less than $100 according to the work order. Dad ended up going and getting a couple of my uncles and outright taking the outboard after paying the amount on the work order and nothing more. I'm not sure if they ended up putting the old coils back in or not, but they were fine to begin with since it always had a good strong spark. I still won't patronize that guy's business, no matter how hard up I am for a part. He has quite a reputation around town for crap like that.
This is why I always make sure to tell anyone working on something (whether saw or car/truck or whatever) of mine how much they can put into it before they need to contact me for additional go-ahead. I'd rather be notified first and possibly have the work delayed a day or two than come in to find a bill two or three times what I expected.
Years ago when I was a kid my dad took his old 1964 Chrysler 8hp outboard to a local shop to have the points looked at and plugs replaced, since the ignition was getting a little spotty at higher RPM. That's all the service order was for, and no "do what you have to" permission was given. When we showed up to pick it up, they had not only replaced the points, but both coils as well, and wanted hundreds of dollars for a service that was supposed to cost less than $100 according to the work order. Dad ended up going and getting a couple of my uncles and outright taking the outboard after paying the amount on the work order and nothing more. I'm not sure if they ended up putting the old coils back in or not, but they were fine to begin with since it always had a good strong spark. I still won't patronize that guy's business, no matter how hard up I am for a part. He has quite a reputation around town for crap like that.
Roland, most places I know of will charge a diagnosis fee up front on non running saws, somewhere around $35. just to cover the time spent tracking down what`s wrong with the engine, this fee will go toward the total bill if the customer wants to have the work carried out. If not he owes the shop $35. and he can take his saw away. Some will, others won`t and others don`t even want to pay the $35. so they say keep the saw for parts or whatever. Most used saws are worth more than $35. for parts or they can be repaired and sold for a small profit as long as the shop does not take a big loss it`s just part of the business.
Pioneerguy600
Pioneerguy600
Brmorgan
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A few years ago my local shop charged $20 diagnosis, but I haven't had them work on anything of mine in quite a while since I started getting into doing it myself. It might be higher now. However their tech is really fast in general...
Slamm
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I'm not much on vintage, so I personally would have rather had the $153 put toward a newer saw. But then I wouldn't have told you to do whatever to it in the first place without first telling you to contact me with an initial quote on the cost.
But that is just me.
If he told you to fix it come hell or high water, and you did that ...... thats his problem.
Give him $60 for it if you like it and re-sell the thing.
Problem is his idea, especially if he is/was an older guy, is he thinks everything costs like it did back in the '60's or something, like a tune up for $10 or something. You hit him with some modern real world scenerios like the one you mentioned and he'll flip out, LOL.
Sam
But that is just me.
If he told you to fix it come hell or high water, and you did that ...... thats his problem.
Give him $60 for it if you like it and re-sell the thing.
Problem is his idea, especially if he is/was an older guy, is he thinks everything costs like it did back in the '60's or something, like a tune up for $10 or something. You hit him with some modern real world scenerios like the one you mentioned and he'll flip out, LOL.
Sam
That sounds reasonable, although I expect a lot of customers to have a problem with the diagnoses fee, at least over here, especially if the saw was bought at the dealer. If I were the shop owner, I would probably charge that fee for non carrying brands or saws not originating from the shop. But I guess saws of +10 years of age can also be a headache for young techs.
Last time I visited my dealer and talked to a young tech, he never had seen a 041 himself....
stihlboy
Guess who's back
i love me them 041s:jester:
Paul001
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Two sides to this issue. First with homeowners, they get a call on anything above $75. They are told up front that bench time is $85/hr and diagnostics are flat rate $45 (pressure/vac test). Those that I've had issue with in the past pay the $45 up front, period.
Commercial customers are another story. If a saw is going to exceed 1/3 the cost of replacement, they get a call.
You did right in this case, except for not making the call to the customer. Even when you called him to tell him the saw was ready, you missed another chance to give him the finial bill and soften the shock at the counter.
Lastly, I save all the old parts, they go in a ziplock baggy attached to the saw. When someone asks me why it was so much, I pull the parts and show them exactly why the fuel line was replaced, coil, etc. Honestly most haven't a clue what it is you are talking about, they just know X part was $35, Y part was $12, Z was $85...
Commercial customers are another story. If a saw is going to exceed 1/3 the cost of replacement, they get a call.
You did right in this case, except for not making the call to the customer. Even when you called him to tell him the saw was ready, you missed another chance to give him the finial bill and soften the shock at the counter.
Lastly, I save all the old parts, they go in a ziplock baggy attached to the saw. When someone asks me why it was so much, I pull the parts and show them exactly why the fuel line was replaced, coil, etc. Honestly most haven't a clue what it is you are talking about, they just know X part was $35, Y part was $12, Z was $85...
I was hoping you would join in and help on this issue and agree fully with the policy you use, I did not think to mention it but I do the same thing with all the removed parts. When the customer see`s what you have removed and replaced then it is easier for them to understand what you are telling them. Most would not know a coil, from a carb but if you have the part right there and take just a few minutes to show and tell + have all the parts listed on the invoice with separate prices for each component then that helps them understand the total much better.
Pioneerguy600
85$/hour is quite a high labour rate if you ask me, but I have no experience with US rates. Quite surprised actually, while saw prices are definately much more attractive.
I know car repair shops over here do charge approx 40 euro/h as labour charge, which is approx. 55$/h, and that is considered on the high side.
howellhandmade
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You have to look at both sides -- there are repair services that make a practice of dishonestly changing parts. A local news station years ago ran a special where they took a car that was in perfect shape except for a particular problem to a bunch of different repair shops. The lady driver pretended not to know anything. Some shops diagnosed and fixed the problem, some went whole hog and cranked it up to a $x,xxx "repair," some even missed the problem. So some folks are on the watch for that. On the other hand, some consumers should have a SAG card; they've got pitching a fit down to a science and will drop the hammer whenever there looks to be a chance to save a few bucks. I've known people who had absolutely no shame, the more people waiting in line or the more crowded the restaurant the bigger scene they'd make over a coupon that was only for the 16 oz. size or a wrong size drink. Saying "fix whatever it needs" and then coming unglued at a $150 bill sounds a bit like that.
So, both sides need to be clear, and have it in writing. In his mind, he probably only said "tune up." Paul and THall have it down, I'm sure you will, too. Doesn't take too many experiences yours that to wise up. I dislike theatrics, and the more there is in writing with the customer's signature below it the less there is to argue about.
Jack
So, both sides need to be clear, and have it in writing. In his mind, he probably only said "tune up." Paul and THall have it down, I'm sure you will, too. Doesn't take too many experiences yours that to wise up. I dislike theatrics, and the more there is in writing with the customer's signature below it the less there is to argue about.
Jack
