Price per cord...3/3 cord vs. 4/4 cord

[zogger]

cookstove

Hey all, I've been asked in the past for firewood to be cut into 12" pieces. Knowing that a CORD is 4'x4'x8', the guy thought he should get my normal full cord price. I had to explain that I normally cut fw into 16" pieces which then creates 3 ricks (1/3cord) into a cord. By cutting into 12" pieces (1/4cord) I would have substantially more time (30%) into processing a cord and that I would have to charge more. He basically called me a crook and we went our seperate ways. I think I was right, and I was trying to be nice...but I don't want to cheat anyone...and I don't want to cheat myself either.

I don't sell a lot of wood per year, but I've always offered "custom cut" to a customers desired length. Most take the standard 16" but some want longer and some want shorter.

I'm curious if any of you have had a similar situation. Or just to know what you would do if presented with this situation.

Thanks AS members!!

Cookstove wood-12 inch we used to sell for just cookstoves- is always more expensive. It is cut shorter and split at least one more time per stick. Of course it should cost more. You got a lot more labor and equipment run time invested in it.

the tradeoff for the buyer is they usually don't use as much as for their wood heater.

If the guy is trying to use 12 inch in a woodheater..i don't get it, unless it is some small like ice shanty or camping heater.

Now I personally cut small wood, narrow diameter 16 inch down to six inch length fat diameter (up to a foot or so) sweetgum, just because I don't want to split it, so I cut it to size chunks I can drop into the heater. that's oddball chunk size. but it lets me burn a species we have WAY more than enough of around here, and it burns as good as soft maple at least..good enough for me. Heck, I burn a lot of poplar, too. Just threw a stick in the stove actually...

I don't sell wood now, but way back in the day when I did and also worked for firewood guys, that was the deal, 1-12 inch cookstove wood costs more per the cord or fraction. Pick a number, whatever you feel it is worth, 25% more a cord, whatever. If the dude balks, tough noogies, he'll hear the same thing from most any other seller out there, because the work is the same for those guys, too.

 

[J.W Younger]

You guys are a hoot, I especially liked harrys responce which he quoted but obviously did'nt read.
I'd rather drill my own teeth than sell firewood.

 

[Dozer Man]

Who'd a thunk it??

I never thought I'd get this much response. Still LMAO!! I'm glad most of you feel my pain.

 

[turnkey4099]

C'mon a cord is always a cord remember? Your just cheating the guy if you charge more for the same cord!:msp_ohmy:

Trolling again already?

Harry K

 

[atvguns]

?? cords ?? are like gallons of milk! theres a full gallon, a full half gallon and then theres a full quarter of a gallon, it dont matter how you measuer it its all the same when sold as a gallon or cord.....=== cord, half, third of a cord(rick) or a (1/4) quarter cord??? whats the diff????????????

so you saying you can buy 4 guarter gallon bottles for the same price as one full gallon jug?

 

[les-or-more]

Trolling again already?

Harry K

Was just thinking this circumstance might be a good time to break out the facecords HAHAHAHA!

 

[Deereman76]

At the end of the day, that wood is your personal property. it only gets sold to someone who agrees with your terms. If you don't want to sell firewood to someone, for whatever reason, that as your business. You have every right to charge extra for long/short/finely split/particular species/whatever the extra request is!

 

[chucker]

so you saying you can buy 4 guarter gallon bottles for the same price as one full gallon jug?

you might be able to? but around here smaller quantities usually cost more! takes the same amount of fuel to deliver a quart of milk as a gallon an the same for delivering a 1/3 cord of wood as to a cord! so why buy a small amount and not more for the same price!! ifsomeone wants a smaller amount of product, then there going to pay more for wear and tear!! only makes sense and cent$ on the bottom line. better savings for the customer on bulk price an profit for the supplier. really its a no brainer!

 

[Coldfront]

If the guy is trying to use 12 inch in a woodheater..i don't get it, unless it is some small like ice shanty or camping heater.

I do save all my smaller cut off's and short end pieces for my ice shanty wood stove.

 

[1project2many]

I burn wood at 14" lengths. No one cuts to 14", even on accident. So I frequently have to cut to length before stacking. To make it easier I have a rack that allows me to stack up several pieces of wood and run the saw down through them all at once. The pile that's left over is the correct length.

Couple of thoughts...

1) "Custom length? No problem. All my wood is already cut and split at 16" lengths. I'll be happy to cut the extra 4" off before I deliver it for $X. Would you like the 4" pieces too?"

This is maybe a little more simple answer and really, it allows you to do the same work on the splitter with only the extra cutting using a rack like I have.

2) Smaller quantities of anything generally cost more per unit. 1 pint of milk is far more expensive per ounce than a gallon. And 8 pints can costs a bunch more than a gallon. So do you adjust your pricing accordingly? As you say, 12" pieces are "1/4 cord" length. Do you sell (3) 1/3 cords at a higher price than a single cord? Tell your guy 12" pieces are only sold in 1/4 cords. Then the price is built in, no explanation needed about custom lengths.

3) Put a "minimum quantity" on the order to make it worth the time.

Oh, and don't feel bad. You are a crook. Especially if that guy's over 60. He used to buy a gallon of gas and a loaf of bread for under 50 cents. And you want how much for wood??? It's robbery plain and simple. Crook.

 

[J.W Younger]

No buyer has ever complained but i don't cheat or allow my self to be cheated. This yr ever caller has been told no cause ever stick i sell has to be replaced and i can't buy it for what i sell it for. Some have even offered to pay more than last yr but at my age it just ain't worth it.
My sister made the comment that it looked like i had several years supply but like most she don't know how much it takes heating with wood only.

 

[blackdogon57]

I burn wood at 14" lengths. No one cuts to 14", even on accident. .

For the last few years I have cut all my wood 14". I have one commercial customer who buys 70 full cords per year. They like 14" length so I
started cutting only 14". Most residential customers like it also. Many newer stoves and inserts have smaller fire boxes.

If customers want to play the ever popular "face cord " game it is fairly easy to explain that they will get 3.5 "face cords" per cord. Not playing the "face cord" game as a seller around here means lost business as at least 50% of the calls I get are people looking for "face cords". It doesn't
matter to them that is not a legal measurement - it's the way they are accustomed to buying wood in these parts.

 

[Dozer Man]

Oh, and don't feel bad. You are a crook. Especially if that guy's over 60. He used to buy a gallon of gas and a loaf of bread for under 50 cents. And you want how much for wood??? It's robbery plain and simple. Crook.

This is very true, the guy was probly in his 70's. Of course I'm ONLY 45 and think the same way!!!! Problem is, when I was 16-17 yrs old (roughly 30yrs ago), I was gettin $50-$65 for a 1/3cord...Today I'm lucky if I can get that much!!! Not much inflation in the firewood biz...

:rolleyes2::msp_wink:

 

[KsWoodsMan]

I have no problem adding 20% for the additional effort/time in requests like this.

The wood itself is a minor thing. Firewood in tree form has little or no real value because it isn't seasoned firewood , yet. Once it is in log form on the ground or on the truck it starts to have some value because of the sweat equity and expenses involved in it's processing. The more work involved, the greater the investment and expected return. And then there is the storage. To be considered seasoned takes time while it dries internally. You have to sit on odd length wood till the right buyer for 12" cuts comes along.

It would be different if he was getting odd shorts from ends/crotches. These might be considered waste. But to expect special processing to suite his needs he should expect to pony up for the extra work , go cut his own or find someone giving away their efforts.

The analogy of pints, quarts, half gallons or gallons should hold true for firewood pricing as well. 1 cubic foot bundles are ROUGHLY $5 EACH because of the extra processing involved. That's $640 a cord for 14" wood. 3X-4X the price for ... some string ? So, what is 20% more. There can be that much difference from one vendor to the next.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Let's do a little math for the sake of argument:

Somewhere, I read that 90 cubic feet of solid wood=1 cord (NOTE TO CORD NAZIS: This may or may not hold true, but you gotta start somewhere, so that's where I'm going.)

With 8' pulpwood logs at 12" average diameter, fairly common around here anyway, that's 14.4 logs to process to get a cord (.5x.5x3.14x8=14.4), lets call it 15 logs.

You get 6 - 16" blocks from a log with 5 saw cuts per log. 75 total cuts.

You get 8 - 12" blocks from a log with 7 saw cuts per log. 105 total cuts, 40% more.

Total blocks per cord - 90 at 16", 120 at 12", 33% increase in the number of blocks to split and handle.

Let's put times with this, I'm just using guesstimates based on time actually doing the work, between pieces, moving stuff around, etc. I might be way off, but let's start somewhere.

At 30 seconds per saw cut, you have 37.5 minutes to cut a cord of 16", 52.5 minutes per 12" cord.

Lets say you are ambitious and have a fast splitter with a 2 way wedge, 1 minute to split each block into 4 pieces:

90 minutes for 16", 120 for 12". Lets go with a similar increase in stacking time, 30 min 16", 40 for 12"

You now have about 2.6 hours into processing a cord into 16" lengths, and just over 3.5 hours for 12". Use whatever value your time has to put this into dollars per cord.

Fuel and maintenance costs will be higher, but aren't really significant compared to the added labor. Add a $20 for it if you'd like.

Run the numbers for 24" if you'd like, and you can offer a discount for it as well. Were I selling, I sure would, as anyone ordering 24" wood either has a big furnace in the basement, or an OWB. Either is likely to be a volume buyer.

Math class dismissed.

 

[turnkey4099]

Let's do a little math for the sake of argument:

Somewhere, I read that 90 cubic feet of solid wood=1 cord (NOTE TO CORD NAZIS: This may or may not hold true, but you gotta start somewhere, so that's where I'm going.)

With 8' pulpwood logs at 12" average diameter, fairly common around here anyway, that's 14.4 logs to process to get a cord (.5x.5x3.14x8=14.4), lets call it 15 logs.

You get 6 - 16" blocks from a log with 5 saw cuts per log. 75 total cuts.

You get 8 - 12" blocks from a log with 7 saw cuts per log. 105 total cuts, 40% more.

Total blocks per cord - 90 at 16", 120 at 12", 33% increase in the number of blocks to split and handle.

Let's put times with this, I'm just using guesstimates based on time actually doing the work, between pieces, moving stuff around, etc. I might be way off, but let's start somewhere.

At 30 seconds per saw cut, you have 37.5 minutes to cut a cord of 16", 52.5 minutes per 12" cord.

Lets say you are ambitious and have a fast splitter with a 2 way wedge, 1 minute to split each block into 4 pieces:

90 minutes for 16", 120 for 12". Lets go with a similar increase in stacking time, 30 min 16", 40 for 12"

You now have about 2.6 hours into processing a cord into 16" lengths, and just over 3.5 hours for 12". Use whatever value your time has to put this into dollars per cord.

Fuel and maintenance costs will be higher, but aren't really significant compared to the added labor. Add a $20 for it if you'd like.

Run the numbers for 24" if you'd like, and you can offer a discount for it as well. Were I selling, I sure would, as anyone ordering 24" wood either has a big furnace in the basement, or an OWB. Either is likely to be a volume buyer.

Math class dismissed.

Very good post but I would stipulate that if they want other than your normal lenght and want it seasoned they better order it well in advance.

Harry K

 

[artbaldoni]

Does it cost less if I order 24" long? Less cuts = less time =less money, right?

Steve NW WI, Thanks for the math. Looks like we think alike.

 

[haveawoody]

For my firewood sales i cut everything into 12" length.
It fits all wood stoves, a face cord is 1/4 cord and the difference in stacking and loading speed makes up for 16" cut and split difference.

One man will load a single 16" piece of wood to a stack but two 12" ones in the same time.
Same thing at the splitter.

16" wood simply won't fit most new smaller stoves so the only way to cut now is 12".
At any other size you will be giving away free wood, cheating people or loosing new woodstove customers.

No law in Ontario about face cords but it really needs to go away as a measure since people just get cheated buying them.

1/4 cord 1/2 cord 1 cord should be standard and at 12" cuts they are.

 

[amscontr]

Hey all, I've been asked in the past for firewood to be cut into 12" pieces. Knowing that a CORD is 4'x4'x8', the guy thought he should get my normal full cord price. I had to explain that I normally cut fw into 16" pieces which then creates 3 ricks (1/3cord) into a cord. By cutting into 12" pieces (1/4cord) I would have substantially more time (30%) into processing a cord and that I would have to charge more. He basically called me a crook and we went our seperate ways. I think I was right, and I was trying to be nice...but I don't want to cheat anyone...and I don't want to cheat myself either.

I don't sell a lot of wood per year, but I've always offered "custom cut" to a customers desired length. Most take the standard 16" but some want longer and some want shorter.

I'm curious if any of you have had a similar situation. Or just to know what you would do if presented with this situation.

Thanks AS members!!

IMHO you did the rght thing!
When we come across people wanting everything for nothing we just clearly state, "Go buy your own chainsaw(s), splitter, fuel, etc. and have a nice time".
Everyone has their opinions on cord dimensions which is 4x4x8 or 128 cubic feet.

 

[blackdogon57]

No law in Ontario about face cords but it really needs to go away as a measure since people just get cheated buying them.

1/4 cord 1/2 cord 1 cord should be standard and at 12" cuts they are.

Actually firewood measures are federally legislated. It is illegal sell "face cords" and most other measurements other than
full cords and fractions of full cords anywhere in Canada.

That doesn't stop people from calling me daily and asking "how much for a face cord ".

Here is the link:

Measurement Canada - Buying Firewood? Don't Get Burned