J.W Younger
ass kissing impaired
With my stackin skills a 4x8 stack would fall over long before it seasoned.
Price per cord...3/3 cord vs. 4/4 cord
- Thread starter Dozer Man
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haveawoody
Addicted to ArboristSite
blackdogon57,
Thanks for the link.
Been selling wood forever without knowing, lucky me though i have always sold in % of cord.
I hear you on the face cord requests, i bet it's 80% for me that ask for them and i always reply yes we have 1/4 cords
Thanks for the link.
Been selling wood forever without knowing, lucky me though i have always sold in % of cord.
I hear you on the face cord requests, i bet it's 80% for me that ask for them and i always reply yes we have 1/4 cords
haveawoody
Addicted to ArboristSite
J.W Younger,
LOL nothing worse than stacking wood for hours to see it revert to a pile.
I use 4x4 skids now to stack, two in the bottom, one on each end and 4 small wood bits joined at 45% and a few 4" wood screws to hold them together.
No real stacking skills needed since you just load it all in rows and let the skid ends do the work.
Another nice bonus is the cost about 7 cents worth of screws and the ability to make exact 1/2, 1, 2 etc cords of wood with no guesswork or complaints about quantity.
I add a sheet of clear poly across the top to about 1' down to keep the main rain of it but allow air to move so outdoors stacks on skids cure fast.
Can take a pic or two if you like.
LOL nothing worse than stacking wood for hours to see it revert to a pile.
I use 4x4 skids now to stack, two in the bottom, one on each end and 4 small wood bits joined at 45% and a few 4" wood screws to hold them together.
No real stacking skills needed since you just load it all in rows and let the skid ends do the work.
Another nice bonus is the cost about 7 cents worth of screws and the ability to make exact 1/2, 1, 2 etc cords of wood with no guesswork or complaints about quantity.
I add a sheet of clear poly across the top to about 1' down to keep the main rain of it but allow air to move so outdoors stacks on skids cure fast.
Can take a pic or two if you like.
J.W Younger
ass kissing impaired
We like pic. Sounds a lot like how i pile/stack ends crotches etc. Worse prob i have with pallets is the darn nails when they rot. If theres one nail out there one of my tires will find it.
Well (aside from what you read being wrong) Steve, is that cubic feet of green solid wood or dry solid wood? I think that you have to burn it first, then weigh the smoke content (like Sir Walter Raleigh) to get true measurements.
JMHO
Philbert
(interesting math though!)
Short Lengths Can Be a Pain
Finding short pieces is often tough. I cut mine 16" to 18" and sometimes 20", but seldom longer than 20" or shorter than 16".
Occasionally, a customer requests really short lengths. Frankly, I think they should pay a premium for them. Short pieces don't stack well, and I usually have to throw them on the top of the stacks. When they are gone, they are gone.
Also, it's a pain to split lots of short rounds with a power splitter unless you can stack them end on end. And, that creates its own set of problems.
Finding short pieces is often tough. I cut mine 16" to 18" and sometimes 20", but seldom longer than 20" or shorter than 16".
Occasionally, a customer requests really short lengths. Frankly, I think they should pay a premium for them. Short pieces don't stack well, and I usually have to throw them on the top of the stacks. When they are gone, they are gone.
Also, it's a pain to split lots of short rounds with a power splitter unless you can stack them end on end. And, that creates its own set of problems.
J.W Younger
ass kissing impaired
16 is short to me cause I've been feeding my OWB for 23 years.I use my limbing saw with a 16 bar to mark cuts from tip to rear handle, this works out to 24" give or take and makes for sum stable stacks, which is good cause my stackin sux. Shorts 20 and under go in my shop stove stack.
haveawoody
Addicted to ArboristSite
J.W Younger,
A couple pictures for you on stack skids.
Very easy and cheap to make, free to get materials
View attachment 203925View attachment 203926
A couple pictures for you on stack skids.
Very easy and cheap to make, free to get materials
View attachment 203925View attachment 203926
forestryworks
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yup.
A cord is more of an indication of space occupied by the stack, rather than actual wood measured.
Actual cubic foot volume of the wood in a cord is anywhere from 80-90 cu. ft., depending on species.
Over time, the cord has been accepted for its simplicity of measuring (L x W x H), and a cord only occupies 128cu. ft. of space when tightly stacked.
haveawoody
Addicted to ArboristSite
Wood Doctor,
Actually i find splitting 12" rounds much faster than 16" rounds.
On a splitter one 16" goes on and is split on the splitter.
Two 12" rounds go on at once and are both split.
Keep the round cuts semi straight and 12" splitting is much faster than 16"
A similar effect happens at the stack pile, 16" pieces are generally loaded one by one and 12" two at a time.
For me it is very similar costs for 12" or 16" since we loose more fuel at the chain cuts, but gain it back at the splitter and save man hours at stacking.
Probably a tiny bit of money saving on having 12" wood over 16".
I never get complaints about 1/4 cord or a face cord though since i make it clear they are one in the same.
At 12" cuts everyone seems happy from small woodstove owners to face cord lovers to exacting quantity customers.
12" cuts are cured about 1 month earlier than 16" so a hidden bonus.
Actually i find splitting 12" rounds much faster than 16" rounds.
On a splitter one 16" goes on and is split on the splitter.
Two 12" rounds go on at once and are both split.
Keep the round cuts semi straight and 12" splitting is much faster than 16"
A similar effect happens at the stack pile, 16" pieces are generally loaded one by one and 12" two at a time.
For me it is very similar costs for 12" or 16" since we loose more fuel at the chain cuts, but gain it back at the splitter and save man hours at stacking.
Probably a tiny bit of money saving on having 12" wood over 16".
I never get complaints about 1/4 cord or a face cord though since i make it clear they are one in the same.
At 12" cuts everyone seems happy from small woodstove owners to face cord lovers to exacting quantity customers.
12" cuts are cured about 1 month earlier than 16" so a hidden bonus.
Dozer Man
ArboristSite Operative
Technically Speaking...LOL
I can't say that I've ever did the math to figure the "actual volume" of wood that is split and stacked into a cord of firewood. I will have to get my calculater out and figure how much actual wood, by volume, I cut, split and stack into a 1/3 cord (rick). Shoudn't be too hard... pi X radius squared X length of log. Don't forget to either measure each round or just deduct 3/8" for each cut...Or, should we just figure it in "board feet" and then convert??
For simplicity's sake, let's just figure that a cord of cut, split, and stacked firewood is 128 cu. ft. Then we can go from there. After all, I'm not selling whole logs. I definately think that the processing of 4...1/4cords is more than processing 3...1/3cords of wood. I also agree that processing 12" rounds is easier than 16". No doubt about that. I think I like the idea of charging/pricing for a 1/4 cord to be slightly less than a 1/3 cord. This way I can tell them that they are actually buying 4...1/4cords at a discounted rate. Just as if they were buying 3...1/3cords at a discounted rate. 1/4cord costs less but if you want a full cord, you'll be buying 4. Either way, I'm sure eventually I will get an argument or two.
But, my time, sweat, saws, chains, gas, oil, splitter...etc., are definately worth something. Well, to me anyways...
Thanks for all the replies, keep them coming!!
I can't say that I've ever did the math to figure the "actual volume" of wood that is split and stacked into a cord of firewood. I will have to get my calculater out and figure how much actual wood, by volume, I cut, split and stack into a 1/3 cord (rick). Shoudn't be too hard... pi X radius squared X length of log. Don't forget to either measure each round or just deduct 3/8" for each cut...Or, should we just figure it in "board feet" and then convert??
For simplicity's sake, let's just figure that a cord of cut, split, and stacked firewood is 128 cu. ft. Then we can go from there. After all, I'm not selling whole logs. I definately think that the processing of 4...1/4cords is more than processing 3...1/3cords of wood. I also agree that processing 12" rounds is easier than 16". No doubt about that. I think I like the idea of charging/pricing for a 1/4 cord to be slightly less than a 1/3 cord. This way I can tell them that they are actually buying 4...1/4cords at a discounted rate. Just as if they were buying 3...1/3cords at a discounted rate. 1/4cord costs less but if you want a full cord, you'll be buying 4. Either way, I'm sure eventually I will get an argument or two.
But, my time, sweat, saws, chains, gas, oil, splitter...etc., are definately worth something. Well, to me anyways...
Thanks for all the replies, keep them coming!!
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haveawoody
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dozer Man,
I think that is the trick is to be standard in price for any measure of a cord.
The 12" cuts have the benefit of being no brainers for measures and less confusing for customers.
12" cuts do get a few (this is not a face cord) remarks, so something to keep in mind and a handy cord converter list saves lots of confused questions.
12" almost need a simple stack method since they are more difficult to stack than 16" cuts.
Skids work well for 3 reasons, one with exact stack quantity, with stability of simple rows and no thinking when stacking and the ability to do 1/2 cord sales with a forklift to lift at site or at the delivery destination, just add a few shrink wrap go arounds to my skid pictures.
Customers love when wood arives all stacked, i love delivering and picking up empty wood skid holders replaced with fresh ones.
(drive through wood) LOL
12" cuts for sure are producing slightly less wood than 16", just the extra cuts alone account for that.
12" cuts consume more fuel, bar oil and more time on the chain.
12" round cuts are loaded to trailer, loaded to splitter and loaded to the stack more efficiently.
12" cuts fit all stoves.
I bet when all the math came in the difference is minimal between 16" and 12" cuts when we account for all the steps and fuel and time.
I think that is the trick is to be standard in price for any measure of a cord.
The 12" cuts have the benefit of being no brainers for measures and less confusing for customers.
12" cuts do get a few (this is not a face cord) remarks, so something to keep in mind and a handy cord converter list saves lots of confused questions.
12" almost need a simple stack method since they are more difficult to stack than 16" cuts.
Skids work well for 3 reasons, one with exact stack quantity, with stability of simple rows and no thinking when stacking and the ability to do 1/2 cord sales with a forklift to lift at site or at the delivery destination, just add a few shrink wrap go arounds to my skid pictures.
Customers love when wood arives all stacked, i love delivering and picking up empty wood skid holders replaced with fresh ones.
(drive through wood) LOL
12" cuts for sure are producing slightly less wood than 16", just the extra cuts alone account for that.
12" cuts consume more fuel, bar oil and more time on the chain.
12" round cuts are loaded to trailer, loaded to splitter and loaded to the stack more efficiently.
12" cuts fit all stoves.
I bet when all the math came in the difference is minimal between 16" and 12" cuts when we account for all the steps and fuel and time.
What do you mean by this are the 12 inch cuts going to be a cord as in 128 cubic feet or a face cord of just 12 inch pieces?If just a face cord I got to tell you there are no more cuts or oil and gas used and less wood and less weight!
haveawoody
Addicted to ArboristSite
lone wolf,
A face cord can be any length as long as it is 4'x8'.
a quarter cord is 12" x 4'x8' or some other complex amount of anything longer than 12".
It's just easier to be a face face cord in 12" length because it's the same as 1/4 cord.
Cutting wood in shorter lengths than 16" is sure to be less wood in the final total.
If we make 4 cuts vs 3 cuts for the same length of wood then we are missing 1/4" of wood for the additional cut.
25% more gas, bar oil and time on the chain for the same length of wood to create a cord 12" vs 16".
A cord of 12" wood is less weight than a cord of 16" wood.
More empty space in a 12"cord, 4 ends not quite touching in 12" Vs 3 ends not quite touching in 16")
I would guess a similar total difference of wood we cut making an aditional cut to make them 12" is now empty space in a 12" cord.
I sell 1/4, 1/2 and full cords so for me 12 is ideal.
Matching a 1/4 cord to a face cord for measure is really matching a standard to a altering amount.
I just make sure since most face cords are 16" that my 12" face cord or 1/4 cord is 12/16th or 3/4 the price of a 16" face cord.
A face cord can be any length as long as it is 4'x8'.
a quarter cord is 12" x 4'x8' or some other complex amount of anything longer than 12".
It's just easier to be a face face cord in 12" length because it's the same as 1/4 cord.
Cutting wood in shorter lengths than 16" is sure to be less wood in the final total.
If we make 4 cuts vs 3 cuts for the same length of wood then we are missing 1/4" of wood for the additional cut.
25% more gas, bar oil and time on the chain for the same length of wood to create a cord 12" vs 16".
A cord of 12" wood is less weight than a cord of 16" wood.
More empty space in a 12"cord, 4 ends not quite touching in 12" Vs 3 ends not quite touching in 16")
I would guess a similar total difference of wood we cut making an aditional cut to make them 12" is now empty space in a 12" cord.
I sell 1/4, 1/2 and full cords so for me 12 is ideal.
Matching a 1/4 cord to a face cord for measure is really matching a standard to a altering amount.
I just make sure since most face cords are 16" that my 12" face cord or 1/4 cord is 12/16th or 3/4 the price of a 16" face cord.
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A cord of 12 inch wood is only lighter if it is a face cord, a full cord is a full cord 128 cubic feet which equals 4x4 x8 by or 16 x 4 x2 anything else is a face cord .For example 4 footx16 foot x 16inches is a face cord which is the most common size sold but it is not a full cord it is only a face cord.
I'm sorry but "face cord" is way too arbitrary a measure for me. Can you buy a "face gallon" of gasoline? How about a "face yard" of concrete? All measurements should be in full or fractions of a true cord. This keeps everybody honest, buyer and seller alike. Just my opinion, not worth much but its all I got...:msp_cool:
haveawoody
Addicted to ArboristSite
lone wolf,
4' x 8' x 16" is 1/3 cord.
Face cord should mean nothing when you buy wood, % of cord should be the only way people purchase and sell it.
One man sells 14" the next 17" the next 16" the next 10" so how would a buyer know what he is expecting to be delivered or what to pay as a face cord, how could a buyer complain if that face cord length changes at any time?
I can see a simple scenario (You got what you ordered a face cord 4'x8'x?)
Think of this, you sell a cord of wood that is 48" long, does it contain the same quantity of wood 24" long?
It's only 1 cut but do all the pieces in the pile match exactly end to end or do we now have empty space that 48" wood didn't?
after stacking 200 or so pieces each maybe 1/4" off each other we have 50" of nothing in the 24" cord.
100" in the 12" cord.
4' x 8' x 16" is 1/3 cord.
Face cord should mean nothing when you buy wood, % of cord should be the only way people purchase and sell it.
One man sells 14" the next 17" the next 16" the next 10" so how would a buyer know what he is expecting to be delivered or what to pay as a face cord, how could a buyer complain if that face cord length changes at any time?
I can see a simple scenario (You got what you ordered a face cord 4'x8'x?)
Think of this, you sell a cord of wood that is 48" long, does it contain the same quantity of wood 24" long?
It's only 1 cut but do all the pieces in the pile match exactly end to end or do we now have empty space that 48" wood didn't?
after stacking 200 or so pieces each maybe 1/4" off each other we have 50" of nothing in the 24" cord.
100" in the 12" cord.
Turkeyslayer
Smells Great
Face Means 1/3rd or Nothing?
Does "Face" = 1/3? I suppose so. Otherwise, I'm lost here. As my high school math teacher told me years ago --> Simplify.
Percent of cord would likely mean nothing to anyone who wants to buy. I say sell a cord or a pickup truckload or just sell bundles that someone can see. i cannot see a face cord.
Does "Face" = 1/3? I suppose so. Otherwise, I'm lost here. As my high school math teacher told me years ago --> Simplify.
Percent of cord would likely mean nothing to anyone who wants to buy. I say sell a cord or a pickup truckload or just sell bundles that someone can see. i cannot see a face cord.
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Here is how it is, a cord is a cord 4 feet high x 16 feet long and 2 feet wide if you cut the pieces shorter it is called a face cord then you should specify what the average length of the pieces are such as 16 inches.I really dont get all that other stuff either.
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