I blew a cut, missed my topcut on a snapcut. The limb hinged instead of dropping flat, and kissed the siding. My question is, my boss wants me to fix the damage at my expense on sunday. I have been here 9 months, this is my second oops. Thoughts?
I screwed up
- Thread starter TheJollyLogger
- Start date
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I don't know who you work for, but it is illegal to have an employee pay for a company bill. They have insurance for that! I would tell the boss you are sorry and he could suspend you for a few day's at worst and at best, just write you up for the mistake and put in in your file. Sound's like you work for a Hack.
Jeff
Jeff
Mo_Biscuit
New Member
While Jeff is definitely right, I would try and fix it myself like Del suggested... God knows jobs are hard to find nowadays. And if you do work for a hack, it might not be worth going toe-to-toe with him on, it might end up with you not being employed anymore... I own a company and would never tell any of my guys that they were gonna have to pay for something like that, but your boss sounds a little less legit. You should probably be looking for someone else to work for... Does he even carry worker's comp or insurance?
When one of my employees does something inexcusably dumb, I tell them they can do the necessary repairs off the clock, but that I will pay for the parts. I figure it's at least partly my fault for either hiring them, or not training them better. They always have the choice of paying nothing and being terminated.
It sounds like your error was not quite so much in how you made your cut, but in taking too many chances and trying to go too fast. I suspect the employer has a hand in that, too.
It sounds like your error was not quite so much in how you made your cut, but in taking too many chances and trying to go too fast. I suspect the employer has a hand in that, too.
Nailsbeats
Addicted to ArboristSite
Fix it and fix the reason it happened. Learn from it and get back to work.
Your boss can't make you do anything, fix it out of personal pride.
Your boss can't make you do anything, fix it out of personal pride.
Your boss wants you to fix something that went wrong on your own time and expense. Would he reward you for something that went surprisingly well - like getting a 2 day paid job done in one day? Part of his responsibility as the boss is to take responsibility for things that his employees do, or stuff that happens in the course of this line of work.
JMHO
Philbert
JMHO
Philbert
ddhlakebound
Addicted to ArboristSite
I don't have a problem with an hourly employee volunteering time to fix a mess up, but I think asking you to do it on your time at your expense is too much. Unless of course you get some sort of a profit based bonus. If you share in the profit, it's only fair to absorb a loss you caused.
If you don't share in the profits, then you should only be out time to fix it, at company expense for materials. imho
If you don't share in the profits, then you should only be out time to fix it, at company expense for materials. imho
mr. holden wood
ArboristSite Guru
Every response has a point, but in the end it is illegal to make you pay. One thing that stuck out with me in your post is calling the damage a oops. When I first started I thought property damage was part of the buisness or an accident. Now if think theres a slight chance of a flip or bad bounce I hold it or rope it out. After you do this awhile,nothing is an accident.
How would it be different in California?
ddhlakebound
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yup....When in doubt, rope it out.
It seems like most of the time "it was an accident" really means "it's all jacked up because I did it wrong".
Seriously? I guess you don't have insurance or you and I live world's apart. No legit biz can do that.
Jeff
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ddhlakebound
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes Jeff, I'm insured for 2mil. But "kissing" the siding isn't something that insurance is used for, as the total cost of the fix will be less than the deductible would be.
Do you have a problem with the person who made the error VOLUNTEERING to do the labor for the fix? I'd not REQUIRE that they do the labor for free. But it's probably in their best interest to volunteer. After someone starts costing you money a few times, you become less inclined to want to continue paying them.
In this situation (as the owner), I'd buy the materials, and have my employee help me with the fix.
If I were incapable of doing the repair correctly and to the homeowners satisfaction, I'd hire it done, eat the loss, and probably be training a new employee depending on circumstances.
tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
I am a one crew outfit these days and do all of my own climbing but that has not always been the case. At one time I had 3 other climbers working for me. Believe me I had to come behind them and fix a few screw ups. Nothing major, had to fix things like a deck bench, a fence, a couple of pieces of siding. I did this at my own expense and in between my own jobs that I was climbing and never asked them to pay for it or do it themselves...
Why you ask? Because they were making me too much money and doing too much production for me to want to slow them down. When a climber is pulling in $1800-$3000 a day a $60 board, $40 in fence slats or $80 in siding is a drop in the bucket. Can't say I was happy about having to fix their ####ups but I'm not stupid either.
Funny, when it is your job, client and responsibility, you tend not to have very many oops moments yourself.
Why you ask? Because they were making me too much money and doing too much production for me to want to slow them down. When a climber is pulling in $1800-$3000 a day a $60 board, $40 in fence slats or $80 in siding is a drop in the bucket. Can't say I was happy about having to fix their ####ups but I'm not stupid either.
Funny, when it is your job, client and responsibility, you tend not to have very many oops moments yourself.
tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
On the other hand, I had to replace an electric clutch on my stumper last week and spend about $300 in other equipment repairs last week fixing things that my new guys had tore up in the past two weeks... I had to let them go. I just can't keep spending money fixing #### that they were tearing up. They just couldn't get the hang of things. No biggie, I have an old trustworthy hand that still works with me and a couple of other new guys who are ready to go anytime I am. I am just grinding my own stumps now and not allowing anyone else to help me "fix" things...
ddhlakebound
Addicted to ArboristSite
Jeff, I'm talking from a small time perspective. I'm on every jobsite, and do all my own climbing, so it's pretty rare that I have to do repairs of any sort. But if someone else was climbing for me, and started busting stuff up, I don't want it to seem that they can make errors and have no responsibility for it. You think it's unfair for some reason for their errors to cost them time?
I'm not concerned with the legalities, like I said, they can volunteer to help or not.
TreeAce
Addicted to ArboristSite
Your boss CANT make you fix it on your own time. But he CAN fire you. What you did was not cool. I guess it depends on exactly what all you have to go through to fix it. does the HO have extra siding in the garage? Is it an easily replaced piece or pieces? Have you ever replaced a piece before? I would think that the damage isnt insurance claim worthy. So unless its more than a days pay worth or material I would prolly just suck it up and fix it.
I had a guy working for me a couple years ago who was a half decent climber at best. But he didnt make alot either. Anyway, he broke the chain brake on a 200t twice in like 2 months. Plus he was a bit of a knuckle head. So when he broke it the second time he tried to deny it and also flatly proclaimed..." I am NOT paying for that!" and then explained to me how damage happens and its on me, the employer to take care of it. I thought for a moment and told him that he need not worry about the chain brake and that I KNOW he isnt paying for it. The job was almost done so I waited till we got back to the shop before I mentioned that he should get whats his outa my truck because he is done working for me. Working for me is sure the heck no big deal at all but judging by how far his jaw dropped I am sure that losing his job was not what he had in mind that day. he also pointed out how he was "just f***ing around" with what he said earlier. To late.
If at all possible I think you should just fix the damn siding and start being more careful.
PS...for the record, I never even mentioned that the dude should pay for the brake, he just started shooting his mouth off about NOT paying for it.
I had a guy working for me a couple years ago who was a half decent climber at best. But he didnt make alot either. Anyway, he broke the chain brake on a 200t twice in like 2 months. Plus he was a bit of a knuckle head. So when he broke it the second time he tried to deny it and also flatly proclaimed..." I am NOT paying for that!" and then explained to me how damage happens and its on me, the employer to take care of it. I thought for a moment and told him that he need not worry about the chain brake and that I KNOW he isnt paying for it. The job was almost done so I waited till we got back to the shop before I mentioned that he should get whats his outa my truck because he is done working for me. Working for me is sure the heck no big deal at all but judging by how far his jaw dropped I am sure that losing his job was not what he had in mind that day. he also pointed out how he was "just f***ing around" with what he said earlier. To late.
If at all possible I think you should just fix the damn siding and start being more careful.
PS...for the record, I never even mentioned that the dude should pay for the brake, he just started shooting his mouth off about NOT paying for it.
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tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
To tell the truth that is part of the reason I let one of my guys go this week. Both of them actually. Everything they touched turned to ####. One of them kept crying about having to use the 361 because it was too heavy. I turned around one day about a month ago and saw him using my old 200t on the ground (my spare). I didn't say anything at the time because I was busy in the tree and didn't want to slow things down on the ground. I just went home that evening, broke out my old 192 and made sure it was in working order for him. It wasn't until later in the week that I noticed that my chain break was broken on my old 200. It pissed me off because he didn't mention it to me. Not dishonest but not totally honest either. I have worked with that saw for 5 years, dropped it out of a tree a few times and never broke anything on it. Not only that they left a pry bar in the track of my shop door and it totally destroyed it when I lowered it... He almost lost a log trailer when unhitched it without chalking it... Tore up my new toolbox on my trailer... Burnt up an electric clutch on the stumper... Enough was enough...
newsawtooth
ArboristSite Operative
C'mon MD...5 years on one saw and all that broke was a chain break? That thing had it coming, should go for another 5 now easy.
And to the rest of you...spend more than 5 minutes training people and maybe you won't have as many #### ups.
