Shop Bill Sticker Shock

[hamish]

We never charged for "research." We considered that part of the cost of doing business. We also "pro-rated" our time. The book labor rate for a carb rebuild is an hour, we always charged a half-hour; again a part of doing business in a small town with a depressed economy.

Must be a very depressed area when they can only charge basically $66/hr!

The "we" aspect varies all over. The "we" in me, charges by the minute, but I dont have a clock, and flat-rate times are just poor time scores acceptable to the masses.
Would you pay $66, plus parts to have a carb rebuilt? No, buy a new carb and save some $$$.

At $33 plus parts........new carb in many cases, is cheaper.

Always charging half and hour....in a town with a depressed economy...........ripping people off.

Businesses exist to make money, and some are even there to provide employment to others, all with a cost associated to it.



Thankfully the OP found some of the other "we".

 

[Jacob J.]

Must be a very depressed area when they can only charge basically $66/hr!

The "we" aspect varies all over. The "we" in me, charges by the minute, but I dont have a clock, and flat-rate times are just poor time scores acceptable to the masses.
Would you pay $66, plus parts to have a carb rebuilt? No, buy a new carb and save some $$$.

At $33 plus parts........new carb in many cases, is cheaper.

Always charging half and hour....in a town with a depressed economy...........ripping people off.

Businesses exist to make money, and some are even there to provide employment to others, all with a cost associated to it.



Thankfully the OP found some of the other "we".

Our shop labor rate was far, far less than $66/hr. So I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Your post has a bizarre dichotomy, saying that a half-hour labor charge is ripping people off, but then going on to say businesses exist to make money and employ people?

Of course businesses need to profit. A small town saw shop such as ours made good profits by:
1.- sharpening and repairing harvester chain for the local logging companies
2.- repairing harvester bars for same
3.- service contracts with box stores in neighboring towns

Profits have a lot more do with than how much your labor rate is. Most businesses associated with agricultural or forestry industries make the bulk of their money by doing volume.
I could gross $1100/day for the shop by myself just doing harvester chain and many days I exceeded that total.

 

[indiansprings]

As a shop I find it unusaul,we would never ever go to the point of doing work that totaled that amount without consultation with the owner, if it was deeper than a normal tune up you would get a 15.00 inspection charge with a dealed listing of what needs done and the cost to do it and a phone call asking you to come in to go over the cost. Stihl has a work timetable book that tells exactly how long it should take a competent tech to do the job we use that book as our "bible" as what to charge, shop rate is a flat 60.00 and hour for work, a typical tune up for us usually winds up putting a carb kit in, ultra sonic cleaning the carb, a new plug and tach tuning the saw to the recommended rpms, usually around 60-65.00, we take the recoil off parts wash it, same with the clutch cover and wipe the saw down with simple green and note any other issues that might show up down the road at no cost, saws go out cleaner than they come in. I would take the bill in sit down with the owner and ask him to get his time table work guide from Stihl and have him show you how he came to that amount.
It sounds very iffy.

 

[hamish]

Our shop labor rate was far, far less than $66/hr. So I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Your post has a bizarre dichotomy, saying that a half-hour labor charge is ripping people off, but then going on to say businesses exist to make money and employ people?

Profits have a lot more do with than how much your labor rate is. Most businesses associated with agricultural or forestry industries make the bulk of their money by doing volume.

Just based upon the OP's labour charge and hours involved. I agree 100%, volume makes the difference as do ancillary sales.
Service, on a modal basis should equate to almost 3/4 of the profit, I blend that into customer service as some of "we" do.

Some shops do charge a half hour minimum regardless, even if it is the simplest thing (the no start and the owner just ran out of fuel etc....) to me that is not right.

Shops doing higher volumes, usually have lower service rates, its the unskilled un informed ones that usually charge more to compensate, depressed economy or not.

Yes my post is and was a dichotomy, I am a consumer and business owner, still trying to find that medium that my conscious will permit.

 

[DarthTater]

we have one shop here that charges $65/hr with a minimum charge of 3 hours Labour, , heck they even want $50 for new HD2 Filters, needless to say I wont even buy parts there.:msp_thumbdn:

instead I drive another 15 miles to another town and do my business with that shop, not only do they not overcharge for parts, but the shop rates are $16/hr and the shop is ran by 2 guys who know their stuff.

I do however do 90+% of my own work and rarely have any shop work done.

 

[Walt41]

I'm sure there is a misunderstanding here between the customer and shop that needs a sit-down...at least I hope so, I really don't like to see anyone overcharged for anything.
This thread brings two shops to mind though, one is a car place that is famous for overcharging on things like brake jobs, I did brakes and rotors on a Chrysler New Yorker for my buddies mom not too long ago after they quoted her $1,200...she was out the door for $350.00 and that included a new steering bushing that was making the clunking sound that brought her into their shop in the first place (something they missed)
Another infamous place is a small engine/saw shop that charges a $50 minimum to look at and estimate all jobs...I almost refuse to look at things he has touched because there is usually missing or stripped fasteners when things leave his shop, I am convinced he has an impact gun with a "cross thread" setting, the example that comes to mind is a starter puller I redid on a tiller over the summer that had two of the three hold down bolt holes on the block with no threads left and I had to tap them up a size to get it to stay put. Secretly I hope neither place goes out of business because they provide me extra work.

 

[70flyingv]

Like I said, it flooded easy when starting it. I could cut big rounds just about as fast with my 046 (unless I had to cut from both sides -- I run the 084 with a 42 in. bar, the 046 with a 24 in. or 32 in.).

Not included in the bill or write up was a discussion with the mechanic. I didn't quite follow what he meant, but he said that there was a 'sticky" or "stiff" carb part that he kept in service by loosening it up or making it more supple. Make sense to you carb experts? The 084 I have is kinda old -- probably mid-80s, and parts have to be searched for and waited for. The parts he ordered took around 2 weeks to find and have shipped.

Someone said that they don't charge for "research" -- maybe this guy did.

Since the repair, I took the muffler assembly completely off to try and see the cylinder scoring (I posted some blurry pics here). Between the muffler and the head is a small metal gasket; he obviously didn't get in there, because it was flattened and old looking, and someone had tried to seal it with red silicone goop, of which a few remnants remained.

I went to that saw shop across the river frequented by loggers and the part was in stock! The guys even showed me how to install it, and said that it needed no silicone or gasket -- the thin bit of metal WAS the gasket -- they also said that the old one was on flipped over the wrong way (back to front); the muffler side has a thin, slightly raised central ridge that goes against the muffler, the reverse has a slight concave track that goes against the head. And these guys weren't even the main mechanics!

No charge. I found a few things to go with the $1.35 part.

Yeah John and the guys are great at DJ's! Really ethical. I know the 084s really well and may be able to help and my deal would be more like mdavlees. I will shoot you a PM.

 

[cutforfun]

My offer still stands to come and hang out and talk saw shop with you. It would take me a year to get to a total of 300 bucks unless i am doing multiple rebuilds for you?

 

[sachsmo]

Har har,

ever get an itemized bill from a Lawyer?

If they mention your name it's a quarter hour ($200-$300 per)

Wonder how many rounds of golf are played on the poor shmucks dime throughout the year?

Oh well, if you don't like the charges,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,DO IT YOURSELF!

 

[Undy]

It seems like there is just a vast difference in shops.

Several years ago, I took my very old 041 Farm Boss to a dealer in Madison because it wasn't running well, and wouldn't idle to save it's soul. The estimate was over $400, and included a new carb, blade, etc. They claimed they could get it running, but not idling well, for just a tick under $100. Well, $100 later, and it never cut another stick. So it sat in the barn for a while.

A couple years later, a neighbor gave me another 041, but a AV model, which didn't run at all. I dropped both saws off to another Stihl dealer, but 50 mi. west of Madison, run by a pretty old codger, and asked if he could get one running from the parts of two. I asked for an estimate if it went over $150.

One week later, he calls and says they're fixed. I ask how much? $98 says he. I ask which one's fixed? He says "both". ??!!?? I go out, and sure enough, both saws were running like champs, and one had a new blade and the other had a new chain. Apparently, the big-city shop had no idea what a Welch plug was and that they could be removed and replaced. That or they were just lazy.

It's about 15 years later, and I've given one to a friend, but BOTH saws are still running strong. Unfortunately for folks in my area, the old fellow retired.

 

[Fish]

Like I said, it flooded easy when starting it. I could cut big rounds just about as fast with my 046 (unless I had to cut from both sides -- I run the 084 with a 42 in. bar, the 046 with a 24 in. or 32 in.).

Not included in the bill or write up was a discussion with the mechanic. I didn't quite follow what he meant, but he said that there was a 'sticky" or "stiff" carb part that he kept in service by loosening it up or making it more supple. Make sense to you carb experts? The 084 I have is kinda old -- probably mid-80s, and parts have to be searched for and waited for. The parts he ordered took around 2 weeks to find and have shipped.

Someone said that they don't charge for "research" -- maybe this guy did.

Since the repair, I took the muffler assembly completely off to try and see the cylinder scoring (I posted some blurry pics here). Between the muffler and the head is a small metal gasket; he obviously didn't get in there, because it was flattened and old looking, and someone had tried to seal it with red silicone goop, of which a few remnants remained.

I went to that saw shop across the river frequented by loggers and the part was in stock! The guys even showed me how to install it, and said that it needed no silicone or gasket -- the thin bit of metal WAS the gasket -- they also said that the old one was on flipped over the wrong way (back to front); the muffler side has a thin, slightly raised central ridge that goes against the muffler, the reverse has a slight concave track that goes against the head. And these guys weren't even the main mechanics!

No charge. I found a few things to go with the $1.35 part.

How does the saw run compared to before you brought it in the first time?

 

[lambs]

I took a saw to a local dealer a few years ago and asked them to check it for recalls and adjust the carb for me while it was there. There was a recall which they took care of, but they charged me $95 to adjust the carb. In their way of thinking, that apparently means "tune up" so they had replaced the fuel and air filters and put in a new plug. I had a chat with the manager and told him I had not asked them to tune up the saw and would not pay for one when all I needed was someone to start and warm up the saw, then adjust the carb and turn the saw off.

I left 5 minutes later having paid for the parts. I like the dealer and still go there, but I learned how to set a carb myself shortly after.

 

[furb]

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/192031.htm

Fine example there. Dealer said over 300 bucks to fix it and it only needed a fuel line.

 

[glock37]

Did Anyone Post this yet ?

View attachment 274448

Maybe this will help

 

[Jacob J.]

It seems like there is just a vast difference in shops.

Several years ago, I took my very old 041 Farm Boss to a dealer in Madison because it wasn't running well, and wouldn't idle to save it's soul. The estimate was over $400, and included a new carb, blade, etc. They claimed they could get it running, but not idling well, for just a tick under $100. Well, $100 later, and it never cut another stick. So it sat in the barn for a while.

A couple years later, a neighbor gave me another 041, but a AV model, which didn't run at all. I dropped both saws off to another Stihl dealer, but 50 mi. west of Madison, run by a pretty old codger, and asked if he could get one running from the parts of two. I asked for an estimate if it went over $150.

One week later, he calls and says they're fixed. I ask how much? $98 says he. I ask which one's fixed? He says "both". ??!!?? I go out, and sure enough, both saws were running like champs, and one had a new blade and the other had a new chain. Apparently, the big-city shop had no idea what a Welch plug was and that they could be removed and replaced. That or they were just lazy.

It's about 15 years later, and I've given one to a friend, but BOTH saws are still running strong. Unfortunately for folks in my area, the old fellow retired.

One of the first guys I worked for was like that. He was a WW2/Korea vet that had retired from the military as an artillery commander and took up a second career as a small engine guy. Him and his wife ran a tiny little mom and pop store out in the country near where I lived. I started working for him when I was in high school, 12 hours a week. A full carb rebuild from him at the time (early 80's) was about $16. A blade sharpen + balance for a walk-behind mower was $2.50. A full mower tune-up including oil and spark plug was $18. I asked him one time if he ever thought of charging more, and he said "I probably could, but when you've seen what I have, you're just happy enough to be alive and have something worthwhile to do."

 

[Fish]

How does the saw run compared to before you brought it in the first time?

I was just wondering if their tech sheared the flywheel key.......... Might be behind the extra cost.............

 

[Jacob J.]

I was just wondering if their tech sheared the flywheel key.......... Might be behind the extra cost.............

The first thing I think of is that a lot of shops don't get much experience with the big saws like the 084, simply because there aren't that many around.

 

[Fish]

Yeah, the tech might have invested a lot of shop time on this saw, and instead of laying it off onto bad luck/beginner's curve, he tried laying it
off onto the customer.

Why else would he pull the starter? If it was to replace the rope is one thing, but it likely wasn't. Even if it was, why would he check the
flywheel key? Unless he had to, as he was desperately trying to figure out why a running saw when it came in, would no longer start....And
he already had some hours into it........

 

[TreeTangler]

Yeah, the tech might have invested a lot of shop time on this saw, and instead of laying it off onto bad luck/beginner's curve, he tried laying it
off onto the customer.

Why else would he pull the starter? If it was to replace the rope is one thing, but it likely wasn't. Even if it was, why would he check the
flywheel key? Unless he had to, as he was desperately trying to figure out why a running saw when it came in, would no longer start....And
he already had some hours into it........

Fish,

This is one of the first things that crossed my mind. I almost didn't want to poor fuel on the fire so instead I suggested that the OP have a sit down the the shop manager. I could not for the life of me figure out why a tech would pull the starter, unless cleaning was part of the "tune up". I saw no mention in the original post of replacing the rope. It just wasn't sitting right with me. If I remember correctly, it also showed up at the later end of the description of services performed leading me to believe that it was done after all the other work was done.

 

[Fish]

Fish,

This is one of the first things that crossed my mind. I almost didn't want to poor fuel on the fire so instead I suggested that the OP have a sit down the the shop manager. I could not for the life of me figure out why a tech would pull the starter, unless cleaning was part of the "tune up". I saw no mention in the original post of replacing the rope. It just wasn't sitting right with me. If I remember correctly, it also showed up at the later end of the description of services performed leading me to believe that it was done after all the other work was done.

I agree, it is a matter of flags, eh??

I have worked for a few shops where the "tech"s position was so tenuous that one bad day could get the tech into trouble, which explains
why I don't work for ass h oles too long.....