Shop Bill Sticker Shock

[TreeGuyHR]

My 084 wasn't running too well --- easily flooded,and not as much power as I thought it should have. So I took it to my regular shop for a tune-up. I know they aren't the cheapest -- one in the next town charges $10 less an hr. for labor.

But my "tune up" cost $297.58 -- half of what I paid for the saw used less than a year ago!

The bill:

Labor: $234

Shop Fees: $4.68

Notable new parts (the other 6 items were a buck or two each):

needle bearing $12.85
clutch carrier $28.90
chain catcher $9.10

($58.90 total)

Description of work written on second page of bill in microscopic type, word for word (along with parts list and prices):

"Go over saw with customer, light scoring on piston, test engine, no leaks, test carburator OK, went to install new clutch spring and found clutch carrier broken as well, ordered new carrier, install new clutch carrier, reassemble saw, install new spark plug, new needle bearing, check pull start, found Woodruff key sheared on flywheel, install new chain cather"

Is there a tune up in this?

What would one of you Hobbyists with CAD have charged?! At $70 an hr., I get 3 hrs and 34.5 min. Kind of an odd total..

Did the guy charge for my talking with him first about what i thought ailed the saw?

 

[mdavlee]

Ouch that's a rough bill to swallow. If I was doing it for you and you were my buddy, parts and a 6 pack of good craft beer.

 

[pioneerguy600]

opcorn:opcorn:

 

[gmax]

It pays to have a few backup saws and learn how to do your own repairs.

 

[procarbine2k1]

Sounds real, real steep to me. The shop, and shop mechanic that I've dealt with in the past wasnt the norm either though- I may be out of the loop on "service" charges and costs.

 

[TreeTangler]

How does the saw run? Did you go over estimates or prices before you left when you dropped off the saw? Did you ask to be notified before any parts were ordered and installed?

 

[Jacob J.]

I used to work at a dealership and what you're describing, we could have done (or at least charged you for) 90 minutes worth of labor.

Changing a clutch in an 084 is not that involved. Rebuilding the carb/replacing fuel line/fuel filter/running the impulse line is an hour at the very most, which is what a saw tune-up is.
There's no breaker points to adjust or condenser to test in an 084. Removing the flywheel to replace the woodruff key is about 10-15 minutes.

Your local shop is a rip off.

 

[TreeTangler]

I used to work at a dealership and what you're describing, we could have done (or at least charged you for) 90 minutes worth of labor.

Changing a clutch in an 084 is not that involved. Rebuilding the carb/replacing fuel line/fuel filter/running the impulse line is an hour at the very most, which is what a saw tune-up is.
There's no breaker points to adjust or condenser to test in an 084. Removing the flywheel to replace the woodruff key is about 10-15 minutes.

Your local shop is a rip off.

It's possible that he got ripped off. It's also possible that we don't know everything. Whille when everything goes right, you are correct in that the labor time seems excessive, we dont know what condition the saw was in when it was dropped off, what was discussed at the front counter during the saw dropoff, and what complications arose during the "tune up". I can tell you from experience that it's easy to waste 30 minutes or more just cleaning off some of the saws I see.

 

[TreeTangler]

Honestly, I think if the OP feels cheated, he really should sit down with the shop owner/manager when no one else is around and discuss with him as to why the labor was so much. There may be a good reason, there may not. If he felt this was a good dealer, there was probably a reason. I'd rather pay for top notch service than to have paid $100 and find out down the road that what should have been done wasnt.

 

[screamin350]

Anytime someone brings me in a saw for just a tune-up and I find something else wrong I always call first to confirm an estimated repair price. But at 3.5 hours, I'm not sure what they were doing to that saw?

 

[TreeGuyHR]

Ouch that's a rough bill to swallow. If I was doing it for you and you were my buddy, parts and a 6 pack of good craft beer.

I've considered taking a working vacation and driving cross country with some gear, paying my way with an 'informal" job or two. You would be on my list of stops! I would keep a selection of PNW micros on ice for you the whole way -- wouldn't want to warm and then cool them, might lose some flavor :msp_biggrin:.

 

[barneyrb]

We only have one Stihl dealership in our town and a tree service is now my customer because they charged him $97 and change (plus tax) to replace a diaphragm in a carb on a MS660. Yeah there are some that will rape a customer.

 

[mdavlee]

We only have one Stihl dealership in our town and a tree service is now my customer because they charged him $97 and change (plus tax) to replace a diaphragm in a carb on a MS660. Yeah there are some that will rape a customer.

HOLY:taped: That's would be a fight from me when I took the diaphragm back out and give it to them in about 7 minutes.

 

[hamish]

I used to work at a dealership and what you're describing, we could have done (or at least charged you for) 90 minutes worth of labor.

Changing a clutch in an 084 is not that involved. Rebuilding the carb/replacing fuel line/fuel filter/running the impulse line is an hour at the very most, which is what a saw tune-up is.
There's no breaker points to adjust or condenser to test in an 084. Removing the flywheel to replace the woodruff key is about 10-15 minutes.

Your local shop is a rip off.

At 115min there....add in a vac and pressure test............

Some shops are clock punchers which can add up to alot of extra time........imagine being charged to have some guy surf the web finding part numbers or settings etc.....time add up quick.

Sucks, but such is life.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

It pays to have a few backup saws and learn how to do your own repairs.

Obviously, the 084 is not my primary saw -- even though I do live in Oregon!:msp_biggrin:

Six Stihl saws in the fleet: 084, 046, 361, two 200Ts, and a 170.

Problem is, I am also impatient and tend to break or loose small parts. I once had to bring my 200T to the shop in a box because in trying to replace the trigger mechanism, all those little bits kind of twanged and sprang out and I was mystified on how to get them all back in their places.

I still think I was overcharged. I should have gone to the third saw shop I know of, catering more to loggers. But I have to pay a $2.00 toll round trip to spend around 20 minutes to cross over the river to WA and get to that shop; somehow that keeps me from going. Not any more! You even get to avoid sales tax as an OR resident in WA (but you have to remember to ask).

 

[Jacob J.]

It's possible that he got ripped off. It's also possible that we don't know everything. Whille when everything goes right, you are correct in that the labor time seems excessive, we dont know what condition the saw was in when it was dropped off, what was discussed at the front counter during the saw dropoff, and what complications arose during the "tune up". I can tell you from experience that it's easy to waste 30 minutes or more just cleaning off some of the saws I see.

I agree, we don't know the whole story, but my shop never charged anyone for "cleaning." We make the repairs and just knock back as much of the sawchips as needed to get the repair done, and the show the customer what they need to do as far as cleaning. The two shops I worked at were in tiny communities where the economies were very depressed.

At 115min there....add in a vac and pressure test............

Some shops are clock punchers which can add up to alot of extra time........imagine being charged to have some guy surf the web finding part numbers or settings etc.....time add up quick.

Sucks, but such is life.

We never charged for "research." We considered that part of the cost of doing business. We also "pro-rated" our time. The book labor rate for a carb rebuild is an hour, we always charged a half-hour; again a part of doing business in a small town with a depressed economy.

I know most of the shops around here including up in the OP's area. I would see the shop owners and service techs at the dealer update meetings. I know how these guys are operating. This is just one of hundreds of stories of being overcharged here.

 

[expy]

At least you can come to this forum where the advice is always free.:biggrin:

 

[CTYank]

I'm always amused by folks who say that nearby dealer would be a large factor in purchasing decision. Right.

This is yet another reason to learn how to service your own. Even if you think it's a royal PITA, or you can't be bothered, think of it as earning $70+/hour and it becomes enjoyable. M'self, I enjoy fixing saws, and preventative maintenance. Navy training?

OP definitely needs a sit-down with dealer mgmt. That's outrageous, based on the story given.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

How does the saw run? Did you go over estimates or prices before you left when you dropped off the saw? Did you ask to be notified before any parts were ordered and installed?

Like I said, it flooded easy when starting it. I could cut big rounds just about as fast with my 046 (unless I had to cut from both sides -- I run the 084 with a 42 in. bar, the 046 with a 24 in. or 32 in.).

Not included in the bill or write up was a discussion with the mechanic. I didn't quite follow what he meant, but he said that there was a 'sticky" or "stiff" carb part that he kept in service by loosening it up or making it more supple. Make sense to you carb experts? The 084 I have is kinda old -- probably mid-80s, and parts have to be searched for and waited for. The parts he ordered took around 2 weeks to find and have shipped.

Someone said that they don't charge for "research" -- maybe this guy did.

Since the repair, I took the muffler assembly completely off to try and see the cylinder scoring (I posted some blurry pics here). Between the muffler and the head is a small metal gasket; he obviously didn't get in there, because it was flattened and old looking, and someone had tried to seal it with red silicone goop, of which a few remnants remained.

I went to that saw shop across the river frequented by loggers and the part was in stock! The guys even showed me how to install it, and said that it needed no silicone or gasket -- the thin bit of metal WAS the gasket -- they also said that the old one was on flipped over the wrong way (back to front); the muffler side has a thin, slightly raised central ridge that goes against the muffler, the reverse has a slight concave track that goes against the head. And these guys weren't even the main mechanics!

No charge. I found a few things to go with the $1.35 part.

 

[KenJax Tree]

Most places call with an estimate first.