Chainsaw timber framing?

[MustangMike]

We used 4" angle iron for low cost brackets. We cut them 6" long (the posts & beams are all 6.5" X 6.5"). Each ear has a 1/2" hole for a bolt and two 3/8" holes for lags. We also cut a 1" notch at each joint. My buddy Harold cut Us at the top of the two Ridge Posts to accommodate the Ridge Beam.

I plan to use store bought 2 X 10 rafters to keep the roof straight. The struts are from the side pieces cut from the logs and will have the curve of the tree on the inside. Should look sharp.

 

[MustangMike]

What are you treating the freshly cut beams with?

These are all from down trees. We did not treat them with anything, but will stain them (to protect from bugs) before covering them. We lost 2 posts from excessive checking and warping. You could hear one of them breaking as soon as we got done cutting it. It was scary! I may also do what I see the old timers sometimes did and run a bolt through a beam that is checking to keep it together.

I'm busy in tax season till 4/15, but should be able to resume soon.

 

[SCHallenger]

Fantastic stuff!!! You are building a lot of great memories & good times & having fun in the process!!

 

[MustangMike]

Fantastic stuff!!! You are building a lot of great memories & good times & having fun in the process!!

Thanks, it is a lot of work, but the reward should also be really good.

 

[Mad Professor]

Check out the forestry forum's timberframing forum for traditional timberframing methods.

When you buck up ash logs (or cut beams to length) coat them with anchorseal to prevent checking, ash checks easily. Store the beams stickered and covered on top out of direct sunlight. When you cut tenons coat them too.

Spraying ash logs/timbers with borax solution will keep the powder post beetles at bay.

Concerning stihl PMX picco chain you need a picco drive sprocket, and a picco tip or hardnose bar, otherwise the chain will mismatch with the sprockets. This will beat up the drivers on the chain. This has been beaten to death on the milling forum.

 

[MustangMike]

The chain I used was compatable with my saw. When I get time to go out to the shed I will post the specs, but you can only get it though Baileys even though it is Shihl chain. The reason is Stihl produces it for Logosol, and Bialeys is the importer.

Thanks for the other advice on the wood. We really started this not knowing anything about it.

 

[Mad Professor]

The chain I used was compatable with my saw. When I get time to go out to the shed I will post the specs, but you can only get it though Baileys even though it is Shihl chain. The reason is Stihl produces it for Logosol, and Bialeys is the importer.

Thanks for the other advice on the wood. We really started this not knowing anything about it.

Logosol is the importer who brings stihl PMX chain (lo pro 3/8) into the USA, Baileys distributes it for them. It is EXPENSIVE! They also sell the correct spur picco sprocket for use with the 066/660, and 3003 mount picco bars. Note that stihl does not make picco rims for the larger saws.

You can buy this stuff from a stihl dealer outside of the USA.

Do a search on this forum, I believe the thread was "getting serious about lo-pro", started by mtgun.

It will explain why a normal 3/8 sprocket/bar is not compatible with PMX/lo-pro chains, with lots of pictures of what happens when you mismatch the bar/chain/sprocket setups.

P.S. get your favorite beverage before starting reading the thread, it's a long one with lots of info.......

 

[MustangMike]

I will research that, but I ran it on both my 044 and 441 w/o any noticeable issues. I purchased (on Bailey's recommendation) 63 PMX 72. It also says, 72; 3/8*P; .050.

 

[MustangMike]

I found the thread. I will check the chain when I get a chance, but they are basically talking about problems with 066 and larger saws. Perhaps the 044/441 don't have that problem. I did not have any issues, but after my busy tax season is over, I will compare chains.

One poster said they are both really .367 (not .375 like true 3/8) but that the side rails are thinner. Perhaps my size saws did not have a problem. I ripped 4-27' logs, 4-20' logs, 2-18' logs and 12-12' logs into 6.5 X 6.5 posts & beams w/o any problems. Sure cut a lot faster. Never noticed any damage to drivers. Would think the guys at Baileys (I spoke to one of the "experts" in the back room) would warn of these things if it was a problem. The Expert is the one who told me about this chain.

They did recommend different bar, but they were back ordered and my bars worked just fine.

 

[Mad Professor]

I found the thread. I will check the chain when I get a chance, but they are basically talking about problems with 066 and larger saws. Perhaps the 044/441 don't have that problem. I did not have any issues, but after my busy tax season is over, I will compare chains.

One poster said they are both really .367 (not .375 like true 3/8) but that the side rails are thinner. Perhaps my size saws did not have a problem. I ripped 4-27' logs, 4-20' logs, 2-18' logs and 12-12' logs into 6.5 X 6.5 posts & beams w/o any problems. Sure cut a lot faster. Never noticed any damage to drivers. Would think the guys at Baileys (I spoke to one of the "experts" in the back room) would warn of these things if it was a problem. The Expert is the one who told me about this chain.

They did recommend different bar, but they were back ordered and my bars worked just fine.

It has nothing to do with the saw it is the fact that the picco/lo-pro drivers do not engage properly on regular 3/8 sprockets, the drive sprocket or the bar tip sprocket. Take a new 3/8 sprocket and wrap a new picco chain vs a new 3/8 chain around the sprocket, you will see the picco does not fit properly.

You can adapt the old style 036 clutch to the larger stihl saws and then use a picco rim used on stihls smaller saws. Problem with this is then you also need to use the wimpy little clutch bearing, that stihl deemed too small for the 036/360, on a larger saw milling.

Or you can but the pricey picco spur sprocket for the 066 from logosol.

Or you, or someone, can fabricate picco rims that will fit the medium spline stihl rim clutches. Some have done this by turning down 0.404 rims. I had a bunch of picco rims made up by a company that makes sprockets for race saws. I have a lifetime supply now and they were cheaper than buying the picco spur sprockets from logosol.

Read some more of the long thread I mentioned, there are plenty of pictures that illustrate what I have told you. Some showing the wear and damage that will occur.

As far as Bailey's "expert", he needs to be properly educated.

 

[MustangMike]

I thank you for the advice and after tax season I will look into it further. I am also perplexed at how I got away with doing what I did w/o any problems. I will carefully compare the chains to one another after tax season. Also, regarding the Borax Solution, how often should that be done?

I was also planning on applying some home made Wallnut Stain and then covering that with a protective stain. Wallnut Stain is supposed to protect against bugs also. I made a bunch of it, but it washes off (outside) if you do not protect it.

 

[Mad Professor]

Borax is a preventative, once the bugs (powder post beetles) get inside they will do their thing regardless. Coat things before you stack and sticker, and cover the top, so rain will not wash it off. A solution in a sprayer will work.

PP beetles will leave tiny holes and frass (chewings) when they emerge from wood. They really like ash especially when it still has some moisture.

Borax is cheap and relatively non-toxic unless you drink it (laundry additive). Boric acid (medical grade) is used for eye washes ( a mild disinfectant) and is found in things like Visesene (sp?).

Borax/boric acid works great on other insects too, like ants and roaches, mix some up in a slurry with some sugar or honey (bait), and the insects will take it home to kill their kin. Sometimes ants want protein rather than sugar, put the borate on meat scrapes. Works great to keep carpenter ants out of firewood piles too.

If you need a connection to get mid size stihl picco rims PM me. I had to order a large run to make it worthwhile for the machinist to make them, and cheap enough for me to buy them. I am sure he would do another run but would need 40-50 to make it worthwhile.

 

[MountainHigh]

Great project Mike ... nice photos.
Makes you really appreciate the effort that went into doing things in the old days.

 

[MustangMike]

You got that right, it was a ton of work even with saws and drills and metal brackets. The old timers are to be respected.

Glad you liked it.

 

[Mad Professor]

You got that right, it was a ton of work even with saws and drills and metal brackets. The old timers are to be respected.

Glad you liked it.

Mike nice work , Happy Easter!

It does make you wonder how much work it was without electric and gasoline. I'm starting to know!

I had an old friend who did work that way and I'm still trying to get all the tools together to follow in his steps. I have learned joinery layout using a divider, plum bob, and chalk line. IMHO better than square rule. No tapes rulers squares gadgets needed.........

 

[MustangMike]

Happy Easter to you also. Technology can be a good thing, but it is also a shame we loose so much knowledge due to technology. Many of the old methods were nothing short of brilliant.

 

[Grande Dog]

Howdy,
You did a great job using that beam machine. I don't know if you plan on moving into larger projects after this one but, I found for larger beams, the basic Alaskan Mill does an excellent job. People generally think of them for slabbing. You only have to roll the log one time, 90 degrees. With the standard set up you can do very accurate beams up to 12" x 12". They do have extensions that allow beams up to 36" x 36".
You can drive picco with a .404 x 8 tooth rim with no damage to the chain.
Regards
Gregg

 

[MustangMike]

Thanks for the advice. The Beam Machine is a little crude, but that made it perfect for this project. I'm planning on buying rafters, not sure yet what I will do for siding, the basic Alaskan may be good for that. However, the bottom has to be porcupine proof (stone, metal or concrete board). They are a terrible problem, will eat plywood, treated wood, rubber & aluminum!

If you leave a vehicle too long they will eat the break lines and radiator hoses, and they even chewed through the tire of a skidder that was next door.

The trick with the beam machine is getting the 2X4 guide to be both straight & level, and then being very consistent with your saw so it stays square. It is nice that it lets the saw pivot.

I used that chain with my 044 and 441 w/o any issues, with the standard Stihl bars.

 

[Mad Professor]

Howdy,
You did a great job using that beam machine. I don't know if you plan on moving into larger projects after this one but, I found for larger beams, the basic Alaskan Mill does an excellent job. People generally think of them for slabbing. You only have to roll the log one time, 90 degrees. With the standard set up you can do very accurate beams up to 12" x 12". They do have extensions that allow beams up to 36" x 36".
You can drive picco with a .404 x 8 tooth rim with no damage to the chain.
Regards
Gregg

Gregg, I think you need to turn the 0.404 rim down a bit to match 0.375 picco pitch.

Pi R squared is circumference. Do that with 0.0404 X 8 , then with 0.375 X 8, what do you get? How is circumference? Why does a 9 pin 03twofive run a chain as fast as a 8 pin 0.375?

But even though, picco and standard 0.375 have the same pitch, the DRIVERS engage DIFFERENTLY. LOOK at the drivers!!!

Try to match 0.375 sprocket to new chain, then do it with 0.375 picco. And vice versa.......

It don't fit........NOPE!

I did not go this route. After buying $tihl picco $purs I had some rims made up... $$$$$

Maybe you guys could hook up with Dan(see)co ( my PC keypad is broken) and offer correct picco rims that are not special order? Ed is good to talk/deal with.

It is too bad Stihl does not Stihl offer 3003 mount bars with picco tips. Yes they are different, and there is a reason.

I have those bars where my mill is and can post OEM part numbers, later on.

P.S, For us Millers, since you have the "magic" connection, with Logosol now. Why do they extort Americans for picco chains/bars, when you you can buy them CHEAP , overseas???

NOT, NOT, NOT, a critisism. Just know you can get Stihl chain in Europe for 75-50% less. Stihl Chain always costs a bit more, here, but PMX at least 100% more. Why???

 

[Grande Dog]

Howdy,
The reason the .404 x 8 works is because of the radial length of the ported grooves of the rim. (would never work with a spur) It basically never engages more than one driver at a time, whereas normal engagement is say 3 drivers at a time. Take your saw, and get it to the edge of your bench so that it will allow the chain to hang straight down. Have the rim so the open ports are facing you. Now roll the chain back and forth. It'll be smooth as silk, no climbing or pushing of the chain. If you look close as it rolls, you'll see that really only 1 driver is engaged at a time.
The reason that PMX is so high is because there's only one game in town, and they know it.
You can get around the picco bar tips by using a hardnose bar, and a helper handle with a roller
Regards
Gregg