Masterminded 362C -R
- Thread starter KG441c
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KG441c
Keith
Not too bad, but actually it balances like a dream on the 461 because of the extra rear weight on the 461. I bet if Sugi made a 22" it would balance perfect on the 362c
MasterMech
ArboristSite Operative
Every C-M I own took 5-6 tanks to really wake up. The 241 was the best runner out of the box.
I think I'd prefer a 28" on a 461. It feels good on my 7900, although I just ran my big bore Makita tonight and the 24" felt good, too.
If I had saws that pretty, I'd feel guilty letting them touch wood.
If I had saws that pretty, I'd feel guilty letting them touch wood.
KG441c
Keith
I clean them every time I use them and firewood cutting is a hobby and relaxation for me. I like working on them but ive been thinking lately more on chains and sharpeningI think I'd prefer a 28" on a 461. It feels good on my 7900, although I just ran my big bore Makita tonight and the 24" felt good, too.
If I had saws that pretty, I'd feel guilty letting them touch wood.
Some guys say a correctly filed chain is the best saw modification there is..
I agree, nothing makes a saw look better cutting than a sharp chain.
Although I am equally impressed with the dyno results on that 660 with the dual port, WOW.
Now I know the difference I felt with my 044 was not just in my head.
On my 046, I'm wondering if adding the dual port is enough, or if I also have to remove that baffle.
Although I am equally impressed with the dyno results on that 660 with the dual port, WOW.
Now I know the difference I felt with my 044 was not just in my head.
On my 046, I'm wondering if adding the dual port is enough, or if I also have to remove that baffle.
KG441c
Keith
Mustang Id sure like to see a video and how u r sharpening that sqaure chisel
There is video posted of Brian and others with more experience than me doing it. Also, Ironworker started a thread on it a few weeks ago.
I studied the angles on Madsen's website. Basically, picture both the top plate and side plate being at 45 degree angles, and you file from the outside in.
I'm using a PRERD Chisel Bit Three Square file (which looks like a Triangle File with flat corners (square file files are generally 6 sided) but others with more experience prefer other files (the Three Square may be good to start with).
It is important to keep the corner of the file in the corner of the tooth, and the wider part of the file flush with the outside top plate (all the way across), which is about a 20 degree angle. Apply a little pressure toward the corner as you stroke.
They use steeper cutting angles for racing and for softwoods, but for hardwood I would stick with the factory angle, I'm using Stihl RSL (or RSLK), seems the same. Unfortunately, it is only available in rolls. A 25' roll will make about 5 chains, depending on length. My shop only charged $2.- each loop to put them together.
I've purchased 2 rolls so far, since my brother and nephew (MechanicMatt) are also using it. Once you run it, you won't want to run anything else. The first time they made 3-20" and 2-24", the second time 4-20" and 1-28". Both times some links are left over which I save for future use.
I studied the angles on Madsen's website. Basically, picture both the top plate and side plate being at 45 degree angles, and you file from the outside in.
I'm using a PRERD Chisel Bit Three Square file (which looks like a Triangle File with flat corners (square file files are generally 6 sided) but others with more experience prefer other files (the Three Square may be good to start with).
It is important to keep the corner of the file in the corner of the tooth, and the wider part of the file flush with the outside top plate (all the way across), which is about a 20 degree angle. Apply a little pressure toward the corner as you stroke.
They use steeper cutting angles for racing and for softwoods, but for hardwood I would stick with the factory angle, I'm using Stihl RSL (or RSLK), seems the same. Unfortunately, it is only available in rolls. A 25' roll will make about 5 chains, depending on length. My shop only charged $2.- each loop to put them together.
I've purchased 2 rolls so far, since my brother and nephew (MechanicMatt) are also using it. Once you run it, you won't want to run anything else. The first time they made 3-20" and 2-24", the second time 4-20" and 1-28". Both times some links are left over which I save for future use.
That was the DP muffler at work.
Brad, the big difference was the dp muffler, but he also posted the difference with break in, and it was noticeable. (2 separate issues, a lot to digest)
My questions is, how much is the dp muff cover, and how much is removing the baffle? In other words, how important would it be for me to remove the baffle on my 046 or my brother's 460?
My questions is, how much is the dp muff cover, and how much is removing the baffle? In other words, how important would it be for me to remove the baffle on my 046 or my brother's 460?
Can you link me to that post? I'm on my phone and haven't found it. I looked, honestly, lol.
Keith, see the Tread "Sharpening a Square Chisel" started by Ironworker. There is video of sharpening there, but keep in mind they are using a slightly more aggressive filing angle. There is a lot of good info in that thread.
Brad, in answer to your question it is tough to put the info together because there were no graph's in the beginning, but in Post 512 Chad declares that after 8 tanks he thinks the 660 is broken in. There will be different #s on different days as conditions change, but initially it was reported that the 461 surpassed the 660 at 7,500 RPM, period (there were no charts published).
After breakin, the 660 was still stronger than the 461 above 8,000 RPM, and then again over 10,750.
The difference was not nearly as dramatic as with the dp, but there was a difference.
Also, see MasterMech's post above, there may be something in the C-M saws that restricts performance during break in. I noticed a lot more difference with my 362 C-M than I did with my non M-Tronic 441 (which ran great right from the start). I look forward to what Keith reports after 5 or 6 tanks.
After breakin, the 660 was still stronger than the 461 above 8,000 RPM, and then again over 10,750.
The difference was not nearly as dramatic as with the dp, but there was a difference.
Also, see MasterMech's post above, there may be something in the C-M saws that restricts performance during break in. I noticed a lot more difference with my 362 C-M than I did with my non M-Tronic 441 (which ran great right from the start). I look forward to what Keith reports after 5 or 6 tanks.
KG441c
Keith
Very nice.
View attachment 354464
I can't wait to hear the results of the side-by-side comparison...
Masterminded 362 vs. stock 461.
Great stuff, 2 nice saws. The 362 can be your speed freak and the 461 will pull the big bars.
Now for some square file chain ....
Now for some square file chain ....
The stock angles suck. You can pick up another 30% reduction in cut time by changing angles. The square stuff can be bought in pre made loops. The shop didn't want to order them for you. A roll is cheaper though and I usually buy 100' at a time.
I asked about a 100' roll, but there did not seem to be any discount (was about 4X the price), so I went with 25'
What angle do you use, and how does it hold up in hardwood. The factory Stihl angle is faster than RS and seems to hold up just as well.
I've see Oregon loops of square, but not Stihl or Carlton.
What angle do you use, and how does it hold up in hardwood. The factory Stihl angle is faster than RS and seems to hold up just as well.
I've see Oregon loops of square, but not Stihl or Carlton.
I run about a 30 degree top plate. The under side angle and side plate angles have an effect on speed also. It holds up long enough for me. I just want a 2-3 tank chain when cutting firewood. That will let me load the truck several times or the dump trailer. The dealer at home will get me whatever I ask for in loops if I'm willing to pay for it. If they're charging retail for the 25' I'd just get loops. A 100' roll out west is around $300.
All these differences, the same place that charges me less than $31 for a HD-2 filter (044/046) wanted over $500 for 100' of RSL.
They have been the biggest Stihl dealer in this area for almost 2 decades, and they told me they have NEVER SOLD SQUARE FILE BEFORE!
With the factory square file chain (new) I dropped 2 trees (Black Birch & Chestnut Oak), limed, bucked, etc. The cutting only took a couple of hours (with dropping them). I started at 8:30 and by 1:00 we had it moved all the wood from the back and stacked in the front of the house. It resulted in 7 face cords for my daughter. Both my saws were used, but no sharpening. A second person (over 65) ran my 362 while I did the bucking with the 044.
I though that was not bad.
They have been the biggest Stihl dealer in this area for almost 2 decades, and they told me they have NEVER SOLD SQUARE FILE BEFORE!
With the factory square file chain (new) I dropped 2 trees (Black Birch & Chestnut Oak), limed, bucked, etc. The cutting only took a couple of hours (with dropping them). I started at 8:30 and by 1:00 we had it moved all the wood from the back and stacked in the front of the house. It resulted in 7 face cords for my daughter. Both my saws were used, but no sharpening. A second person (over 65) ran my 362 while I did the bucking with the 044.
I though that was not bad.
