Why do "Chinesium" chainsaws need a richer oil mix?

[Chucksta]

So, yeah.. I own a collection of Stihl, and Echo saws..
I've seen a few videos ( Guilty of Treason), that test beat a few cheap Chinese saws. They didn't seem too bad, and were dirt cheap. So, considering that a bar and chain could easily run over $100.00 ( CDN), .. for an extra $50.00... Darn!! you get a whole chain saw, tools, gloves, scabbard, etc.
Basically, at that price, they are disposable. So, I bought a 25 CC top handle, and a 60 CC saw. Drop one? Run over one? Hit the ground with the chain? Lend it out to an idiot neighbour? What's the worst that could happen?
But.. What's with the manual's instructions that it runs at 25 to 1 . ( actually, 20 to 1 for the first tank, then 25 to 1 after that).
Is it because the manufacturer thinks that you'll use the cheapest Dino oil that you can find? That you wouldn't run a premium synthetic? Is there a difference in the metallurgy in the saw's construction?
Usually, I run Amsoil Saber at 70 to 1, with Premium, Ethanol free gas, with a glug or two of Seafoam.. Everything that I have loves it, and I've had no issues of any kind in well over a decade. And yeah .. I beat the crap out of them commercially.. They weren't babied homeowner's stuff.
So.. do I just disregard the "25 to 1" thing, and run my usual mix, or, is there something that I'm missing, because it's a Chinese clone?

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

I run 40 in everything OEM and China saws. No issues. Just tune to what you run.

Use good FD JASO rated oils. For me thats VPracing.

 

[Chucksta]

Gonna have to give it a few tanks to settle in. Base tune seems close, but it will blow blue after idling, and then being reved up. Probably should also ditch the factory plug and put in something I trust. Only issue so far, is that the top handle wants to die, when turned on either side. I think I've got to take a look at the "clunker", and see if there's too much tube on it.
Other than that.. so far.. so good..
Whadda ya want for that price? LOL..
Right now, it's still on it's first tank, Amsoil Saber, and premium Ethanol free gas at about 22 to 1..
There's some thoughts about whether or not you should break in on Dino oil, and then switch to synthetic, but I don't know if that's for 4 stroke, or 2 stroke.

 

[Burning man]

So, yeah.. I own a collection of Stihl, and Echo saws..
I've seen a few videos ( Guilty of Treason), that test beat a few cheap Chinese saws. They didn't seem too bad, and were dirt cheap. So, considering that a bar and chain could easily run over $100.00 ( CDN), .. for an extra $50.00... Darn!! you get a whole chain saw, tools, gloves, scabbard, etc.
Basically, at that price, they are disposable. So, I bought a 25 CC top handle, and a 60 CC saw. Drop one? Run over one? Hit the ground with the chain? Lend it out to an idiot neighbour? What's the worst that could happen?
But.. What's with the manual's instructions that it runs at 25 to 1 . ( actually, 20 to 1 for the first tank, then 25 to 1 after that).
Is it because the manufacturer thinks that you'll use the cheapest Dino oil that you can find? That you wouldn't run a premium synthetic? Is there a difference in the metallurgy in the saw's construction?
Usually, I run Amsoil Saber at 70 to 1, with Premium, Ethanol free gas, with a glug or two of Seafoam.. Everything that I have loves it, and I've had no issues of any kind in well over a decade. And yeah .. I beat the crap out of them commercially.. They weren't babied homeowner's stuff.
So.. do I just disregard the "25 to 1" thing, and run my usual mix, or, is there something that I'm missing, because it's a Chinese clone?

It's because they have lower quality oil there.

 

[Chucksta]

It's because they have lower quality oil there.

I suspected that, but "Google" was less than helpful trying to determine that.. Maybe I phrased the question wrong..
I just couldn't see why the oil mix was required to be twice of what we're used to ( 40 to 1 to 50 to 1 ).

 

[Chucksta]

The 60 CC one is a beast.. You can feel it when the throttle is blipped.. Next time I get the chance, I'm going to race it against my Echo 590.. I'll wait till I've got a few tanks through it, bump up to at least a 50 to 1 mix.. re-tune it, and have at it..
They, ( the 25 CC top handle, and the 60 CC ), are, to put it mildly.. Flimsy POS.. But.. they'll do the job when I don't want to use one of my "good" saws..

 

[NSEric]

I have chinese saws too.
A 25cc top handle, 2 "62cc" saws, they're really 54.6cc and a 660 clone it's 99cc now.

I've had good luck with the 62cc ones, they just work like they're supposed to but the plastics are easy to break if you're rough on em. The more expensive ones like the joncutter or proyama have much better plastics.
IMO the 25-1 mix is because the saw is sold world wide and some places use motor oil for mix not quality premix. I run 32-1 in everything.

 

[Chucksta]

Yeah.. I noticed the reference to motor oil.. but, if you read it carefully, they were referring to motor oil to be used as bar oil. Just your basic 10 W - 30 for the bar. Back, way back in the day, my girlfriend had a POS Homelite leaf blower.. Her mix was .. grab an open bottle of whatever motor oil was on the shelf in the garage, and pour in two "glugs" into a gallon of gas.. give it a swish, and dump it in. Made me cringe. After that, it got what I use. Amsoil Saber, with premium non - Ethanol premium. But.. That abused POS is still kicking almost 20 years later. Makes ya wonder.
Maybe, because it's not highly stressed, the lubrication isn't that important.

 

[thompsoncustom]

Yeah.. I noticed the reference to motor oil.. but, if you read it carefully, they were referring to motor oil to be used as bar oil. Just your basic 10 W - 30 for the bar. Back, way back in the day, my girlfriend had a POS Homelite leaf blower.. Her mix was .. grab an open bottle of whatever motor oil was on the shelf in the garage, and pour in two "glugs" into a gallon of gas.. give it a swish, and dump it in. Made me cringe. After that, it got what I use. Amsoil Saber, with premium non - Ethanol premium. But.. That abused POS is still kicking almost 20 years later. Makes ya wonder.
Maybe, because it's not highly stressed, the lubrication isn't that important.

lol and that's why they put 25:1 so it covers whatever oil someone decides to use like some random off the shelf motor oil.

I run all my 2 strokes at 32:1 and don't worry about what brand of 2 stroke oil I'm using I've never had any issue at that ratio.

 

[GeneralKayoss]

You can run them 40:1 fine for normal use. They advertise 25:1 because they have no idea what kind of crap oil someone might be running in a third world country somewhere. Normal name brand two cycle oil and you should be fine.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Because quality of components is lower, softer etc. 2 strokes are already oil deprived with these modern ratios. More oil helps longevity

 

[dboyd351]

I run 50:1 Amsoil Saber in my Holzfforma 372 clone. Have since day 1. No problems.

 

[rocco611]

A while back Farmertec had Jon Cutter G2500 saws on sale for $30 I bought two (in case one had problems.) I just used the 32:1 synthetic oil/ AvGas100 mix I had. for other saws, One saw was used to prune several trees, no issues. Gave the other saw to a friend. I don't think the saws actually need 25:1 mix. Guess I voided the warranty.

 

[diver64]

It's because they have lower quality oil there.

Exactly. I have 2. A 50cc and a 70cc. Broke them in running easy with 1 tank 25:1 then one at 30:1 and run both at 40:1 with no problems.

 

[diver64]

Exactly. I have 2. A 50cc and a 70cc. Broke them in running easy with 1 tank 25:1 then one at 30:1 and run both at 40:1 with no problems.

Many online run theirs at 50:1 but I don't trust them enough for that and they run fine 40:1

 

[JoshNY]

I've got a couple China clones, one of a Husky 372xp and one of a Stihl ms440.
I do a few tanks of 25:1 for break in and after that run them on my usual mix of 40:1 with Amsoil Saber.
I dont think there is a significant difference in metallurgy, I believe it's just the fact that these saws are sold globally and some parts of the world don't have much access to high quality synthetic 2 stroke oil.
I suspect they make the mix recommendation based off a worst case scenario low quality oil.

 

[fields_mj]

After loosing a 2nd top end on my 064 while running 50:1, I now run everything at 25:1. To be fair, I think the 064 may have a small vacuum leak, and when the last top end locked up, I wasn't really paying attention to my RPM so it may have lost its tune and started running lean while pulling a 41" bar. Still, a little extra 2 stroke oil, and an occasional spark plug is a lot cheaper than a new top end, even if the plugs are NKG and the top end is a Chinese knock off. Besides that, my understanding (which could be wrong) is that when everything went from 32:1 to 50:1, nothing on the engines actually changed. The EPA regs got tighter, so the mfgs just recommended a leaner mix that would comply to the regs. I buy Stihl 2 cycle mix because its readily available where I'm at, and its simpler for me to mix at 25:1 than to mix at 32:1.

 

[GeneralKayoss]

A while back Farmertec had Jon Cutter G2500 saws on sale for $30 I bought two (in case one had problems.) I just used the 32:1 synthetic oil/ AvGas100 mix I had. for other saws, One saw was used to prune several trees, no issues. Gave the other saw to a friend. I don't think the saws actually need 25:1 mix. Guess I voided the warranty.

The 5800 is still going for like 65 bucks plus shipping. So for $150 or so you can have a complete 58cc saw. I just seen they have a 75cc Jon Cutter out now too, 106 bucks. lol

 

[Rooshooter]

Because quality of components is lower, softer etc. 2 strokes are already oil deprived with these modern ratios. More oil helps longevity

Dead right, when you have a look at what the crankcase is made of it is aluminum not magnesium, I have seen a couple that have been dropped and crankcase has cracked.

 

[Chucksta]

OMG!... What have I done!! Oh the horror.. What about the children!!
Civilization as we know it is doomed !! We're on the highway to hell. " Pop culture reference".. LOL

All I wanted to know was why the "Chinesium" saw manual called for a 25 (ish) to 1 mix ratio..

Suddenly, well actually, at a medium pace, the thread has slowly but surely turned into a debate about the relative value of a "Chinesium" saw against a known name brand saw..

What is this.. what is that.. why would you do.. What do you think is important when you buy a saw..

Seriously guys, stop it. !!

Opinions are like bellybuttons and butt holes.. Everyone has one..

Wow!

So.. In other late breaking news..

As the common opinion as to mix ratios seemed to point to that the recommended mix ratios were because the manufacturer would not be able to be sure what mix oil was going to be used by the end purchaser.
I agree, that made total sense to me.

On the 25 CC top handle, I ran the first tank dry, and the refilled with Amsoil Saber, and Ethanol free Premium at 50 (ish) to 1. I tuned it, (leaned it out a bit), and it runs like a champ.. Only issue I had was that the saw wouldn't run for more than 20 seconds when on it's side. I pulled the gas line out, nipped a half inch off it, and threw on a heavier "clunker". It now screams no matter which way it's oriented. No worries.. It has it's idiosyncrasies, but I'm spoiled by my 2 Echo 355T"S. Other than a Stihl 201, top handle Arborist saws just don't get much better than that.

I wanted a top handle saw that I wouldn't care if I stuffed it into dirt, fell off the back of my truck, got run over, or just died from natural causes. That's exactly what I got. I wanted an "other " saw that I could bring out, not use, keep as a spare, and that's exactly what I got. For a very cheap price.

This doesn't have to do with Global politics. It doesn't have to do with American values, it was just about mix ratios.,

So, please stop the 1@@#$ issing contest about their value.. The question about the mix ratio has been more than adequately answered, and thanks to all that contributed on that topic. Seriously, I appreciate all the knowledgeable and informed opinions.

Let's, please, put this thread to rest.

Thanks..