Fish
Tree Freak
My memory is somewhat shot, {self inflicted}.
025 will not start
- Thread starter drogueman
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
My memory is somewhat shot, {self inflicted}.
drogueman
ArboristSite Operative
I could try it out on a good saw, that is easy enough. The leak down is not what is worrying me it is just the low compression.
drogueman
ArboristSite Operative
To be honest, no I did not , I just used a few drops of regular motor oil. You can call me a "big dummy" if you want, remember I am still learning, we have all been there. By using regular dyno oil what are the draw backs.? I will have it apart tomorrow and use the 2 stroke.
KodiakKen
ArboristSite Operative
it's an 025
throw it on the boat with a 10# test line on it..throw it as hard as you can...great saw..if you have that much invested..cut your losses and move on to something that you can either get your money out of or use for years to come. I am sure it is something stupid.. but learning is half the fun. do you know your local dealer well? take it to him for a leak test and buy some bar oil..he will probably do it for free..a few minutes will be enough.juice it up to 150 and if it is 100 by the time you get done telling your joke...lower end. take a bottle of liquid dishwashing soap. always the easiest to find out where you forgot to seal good.
throw it on the boat with a 10# test line on it..throw it as hard as you can...great saw..if you have that much invested..cut your losses and move on to something that you can either get your money out of or use for years to come. I am sure it is something stupid.. but learning is half the fun. do you know your local dealer well? take it to him for a leak test and buy some bar oil..he will probably do it for free..a few minutes will be enough.juice it up to 150 and if it is 100 by the time you get done telling your joke...lower end. take a bottle of liquid dishwashing soap. always the easiest to find out where you forgot to seal good.
In 2000 Stihl changed from a 42mm bore to a 42.5mm bore for the 025. Those rings from Stihl are expensive. If Fish has a set buy them from him. Otherwise, here may be an option;
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=PKS 025&productid=PKS+025&channelid=FROOG
I dont think I would trust that current piston unless you have the ability to measure it and the cylinder. Whoever had the saw before you may have installed the wrong parts. Half a mm isnt going to stand out a whole lot while eyeballing.
Best wishes,
Bob
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=PKS 025&productid=PKS+025&channelid=FROOG
I dont think I would trust that current piston unless you have the ability to measure it and the cylinder. Whoever had the saw before you may have installed the wrong parts. Half a mm isnt going to stand out a whole lot while eyeballing.
Best wishes,
Bob
drogueman
ArboristSite Operative
Well I guess the sales rep at Bailey's took me for a ride, that is where I got the rings and crank seals. He should have mentioned or offered the after market kit, then I would have been in better shape as far as parts and money. I guess you live and learn the hard way. I will keep fooling around with this thing for a while and maybe stumble on the problem. What ever I find I will let you guys know. Thanks for the link, I don't know how you found it but thanks.
Dan_IN_MN
Addicted to ArboristSite
It will smoke more when started
It will smoke more when started. I was just hoping that you didn't put it together dry. Don't be to hard on yourself! You're asking questions, and learning. My first engine experience was a disaster! Good thing that it was on an old free lawnmower!
It will smoke more when started. I was just hoping that you didn't put it together dry. Don't be to hard on yourself! You're asking questions, and learning. My first engine experience was a disaster! Good thing that it was on an old free lawnmower!
drogueman
ArboristSite Operative
Thanks for cheering me up, it is good to know I am not the only one that has goofed up a project. The saw was a a free-bee along with 5 other saws so the only thing lost is the money I have into it which is a lot but it was a gamble from the start. I did luck out with one of the other saws,a 021. After looking it over the only thing wrong was the impulse line was disconnected. It starts right up and runs great, even has a new bar and chain on it. Thanks again for your help.
stihl025
ArboristSite Guru
Whoa, I wouldn't be too quick to place blame here. When I order from Bailey's, I get exactly what I ask for, not something different. Most people who order from them know what they want. If you asked for an OEM piston or rings, then that's what you got. If you wanted aftermarket, then that what's you get. I don't believe that when you enter a Stihl part number, it automatically cross references the aftermarket stuff. Maybe Gregg (Grandedog) can shed some light here.
As far as your time, parts and money are concerned, you should have asked lots of questions here first, maybe posting some pics. Maybe you didn't need a new piston or rings. Maybe all that you needed was the correct compression tester with the Schrader valve? There is lots to be learned on this site, but you have to throw it out here first to get the experts advice. Maybe we could have helped you save money, not the Bailey's sales rep.
As far as your saw is concerned. Put a new spark plug in it, put a little fuel mix in the cylinder and try to fire it up again.
I am thinking your timing could be off from you filing the flywheel key. Not sure how critical that position really is. Do you have the correct gap between the flywheel and the coil? A business card (thickness) works well for that.
I know that you are now working with a service manual that I sent to "imanoob", good info and troubleshooting in there. The really good stuff comes from experience on this site. Don't be afraid to ask questions, and good luck.
Last edited:
jeeptj19992001
Addicted to ArboristSite
andrethegiant70
Addicted to ArboristSite
Holy Moses, that's the understatement of the year! I shudder to think of how many smoking wrecks have issued forth under the supervision of AS site members. Imagine clutch parts racing each other across the yard, hearing chainbrake parts pinging off the walls, snapping OEM piston rings, and crunching clutch bearings underoot. And I'm just getting started... detonation, incineration, deceleration trauma, and outright demolition have all brought AS members back from the woods with appalling piles of junk in hand. You have lots of stuff to muck up before you start getting things right, so don't give it a second thought. Just sally forth and have some fun. It may cost you a few bucks, but what the heck, in the larger scope of things, a few hundred bucks of chainsaw screwups isn't going to make or break anything. Heck, a round of golf can can cost you a Ben Franklin these days. And $70? A good running 025 is easily worth that.
BTW, I really lke the 025, once you get them dialed in (admittedly not always easy) they are a good, light reliable saw. Not everybody likes them, but mine has treated me so well, I have no right to speak ill of it. They are easy to upgrade with a fully adjustable carb (if you don't already have one) and a muffler mod. If you do this, they really hold their own. As even the saw's detractors will admit, this little saw is still worlds better than any box store paperweight. This is a great saw to putter with as a first-time project.
Last edited:
stihl025
ArboristSite Guru
I'm with Andre. You have to muck it up and figure out what went wrong, before you really start to learn from your mistakes and successes.
litefoot
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes, he could be screwing up a nice 440 like I appear to be doing.
Saw Dr.
Junk Collector
I have been reading this thread with interest. I have just gotten an 025 that is lightly scored. I did not know that there are 2 different piston sizes (42mm vs 42.5mm.) You guys have saved me a possible headache. Baileys does not list an aftermarket 42.5mm kit, only the 42mm one. It is against the Stihl dealer agreement for them to sell you OEM parts online. It is very likely you got the aftermarket 42mm kit when you need a 42.5mm piston for your saw. While the piston would fit in the bore, the ring end-gap would be HUGE. Did you install the rings in the bore and check the end-gap with a feeler gauge before assembly? If the rings do not have enough outward pressure to hold themselves in the bore, they're certainly the wrong size. Also, if you put the smaller piston in there, there would be a noticable "rattle" coming from the engine when you pull it over quickly. This rattle is piston slap (the piston rocking in the bore on each cycle.) If this is what happened, no amount of ether, priming, voodoo, or any other miracle trick is going to fix it. You will have to take it back apart, and get the correct piston.
drogueman
ArboristSite Operative
I did want to put the rings in the bore but the way my luck has been going not only with this saw project but also health issues, I was afraid of breaking the rings. Today I did manage to get the saw apart again and sure enough the rings were stuck in the piston grooves. I managed to get the rings free without breaking them. I then took the advice of one of the members and used the old ring pieces to clean up the piston grooves. After that i used some 2 stroke oil and lubricated the rings, piston and cylinder and applied the sealant on the bottom half. Got the jug head on and tightened it up. Temp installed the flywheel and used it to turn the crank over by hand to make sure the piston was not hung up. I could see the rings through the intake and exhaust ports and everything seems to look ok. As soon as i get a few more pieces back together i will do another compression test and see what I have. Wish me luck, i need it.
windthrown
361 Junkie
Bad for a 2-stroke engine. It is leave deposits where you do not want them. In the old days they used plain 30wt oil in 2-strokes, and in fact the new stuff is 30wt oil as well, but it is WAY different stuff. It will burn off, but more likely lead to varnishing.
Last edited:
scotclayshooter
Addicted to ArboristSite
Good luck!
I think you should be good to go now.
If the piston you got was .5mm smaller you would really notice it when dropping the piston onto the bore.
Remember that oil will up your compression a fair bit on what it will be once the saw settles.
I could hardly pull my 262XP over with the oil in the cylinder!
stihl025
ArboristSite Guru
Good job. At least, if anything, you will be an expert on how to tear down and rebuild the 025 case. Good luck.
BTW, what ever come about testing your compression tester on a known good saw?
BTW, what ever come about testing your compression tester on a known good saw?
drogueman
ArboristSite Operative
I haven't got around to using the compression tester on a good saw yet but before I use it on the 025 tomorrow I will hook it up on my Shindaiwa 500 and maybe the 359 husky. Also you will be happy to know i stopped at a local Stihl dealer today on the way home from a doctors appointment and bought a bunch of little bottles of Stihl synthetic 2 stroke oil and a new gas can and filled it with premium gas. I think this will make a big improvement in all my saws. I have been using Woodland pro and have had no problems but just wanted to give this synthetic stuff a try. Someone sad this stihl oil has a peculiar smell, is that true. Anyway i will get back to you guys tomorrow about the 025. Thanks for all your input.
Saw Dr.
Junk Collector
Any word on the 025?
