Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
The beer is in the shop fridge..
056mag2 project underway... part one of many
- Thread starter Lakeside53
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Ax-man
Addicted to ArboristSite
Must be a spring thing this year fixing 056's, I just got into mine also before this thread popped up. I have also got a heck of a mess I hope it will be worth it in the end, the only reason I got into this one was I used to have a 056 Mag 2.
Lake, can we back up a little to the part where you were cleaning out the ring grooves with an old ring. You mentioned to be very careful, I can understand this because you do not want to remove any metal in this area because it is so critical. Instead of using the old ring, what are your feeling about doing it chemically by letting the piston sit in a decarbonizer like Seafoam overnight to soften the carbon and using a small brush with nylon or brass bristles to into those grooves and get what you can out and then using a very fine grit sandpaper to finish. This is the way I do it as I don't have any old rings. This isn't my idea I got it off an internet site on engine rebuilding. The brushes and sandpaper are my addition to the process as the Seafoam works but requires a finish touch.
I have to say you are inspirational, I went and bought some of that Purple cleaner last night, have to see how good it works compared to what I have been using. I even got my wife a nicer convection oven for Christmas last year just so I could have our old one for part painting, now all I have to do is remember to order the paint when I am getting parts, seems to slip my mind.
Question about the rewind spring if you don't mind as I also have a few on different saws that the rewind is weak. Can the springs just lose there tensile where they just don't work right or is it the dirt and oil that gets into the coils that makes them not work the way they should ???? This is another area of a saw I would just as soon avoid, but on the same note a slow rewind or one that doesn't pull the cord all the in is more annoying.
You had to go and show a picture of a professional type seal puller, now your giving me the " I gotta have that tool "
Larry
Lake, can we back up a little to the part where you were cleaning out the ring grooves with an old ring. You mentioned to be very careful, I can understand this because you do not want to remove any metal in this area because it is so critical. Instead of using the old ring, what are your feeling about doing it chemically by letting the piston sit in a decarbonizer like Seafoam overnight to soften the carbon and using a small brush with nylon or brass bristles to into those grooves and get what you can out and then using a very fine grit sandpaper to finish. This is the way I do it as I don't have any old rings. This isn't my idea I got it off an internet site on engine rebuilding. The brushes and sandpaper are my addition to the process as the Seafoam works but requires a finish touch.
I have to say you are inspirational, I went and bought some of that Purple cleaner last night, have to see how good it works compared to what I have been using. I even got my wife a nicer convection oven for Christmas last year just so I could have our old one for part painting, now all I have to do is remember to order the paint when I am getting parts, seems to slip my mind.
Question about the rewind spring if you don't mind as I also have a few on different saws that the rewind is weak. Can the springs just lose there tensile where they just don't work right or is it the dirt and oil that gets into the coils that makes them not work the way they should ???? This is another area of a saw I would just as soon avoid, but on the same note a slow rewind or one that doesn't pull the cord all the in is more annoying.
You had to go and show a picture of a professional type seal puller, now your giving me the " I gotta have that tool "
Larry
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Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
I like chemical softening of the carbon prior to removal also. Like many things I do it's because I'm thinking "clock", and "this will be quick".. but I'm real picky on my own stuff so it always takes longer. Any type wire brush or sandpaper may do more damage than good. It is real easy to damage the groove shoulders (more important than the bottom with a scraper (another ring) but with care it's o.k.
Rewind springs - usually rusty or gummy. They won't loose tension unless they have been corroded. Take them out and "polish" clean. Don't put oil on them for lubricant as it just attracts dirt and gums up.
Rewind springs - usually rusty or gummy. They won't loose tension unless they have been corroded. Take them out and "polish" clean. Don't put oil on them for lubricant as it just attracts dirt and gums up.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
The muffler(s), part 1
The 056 has had 3 different mufflers over time. I went though my box and found all three of them, one of each.
Coked up, rusty, broken ears, dented.. look like junk. But, they are either no longer available, or, in the case of the only one you can get, $136.55, so they get saved.
They need to be degreased (soak in purple cleaner), ears repaired (braze on a washer, then re-drill and grind back to shape), dent's removed (various pounding and "adjustments") and then the rust needs to come off.. The BEST way is to glass bead blast them. If you don't have access to a bead blaster, soak them in Phosphoric acid (NOT Muriatic acid), then descale. Takes a while, but it will work - the ferrous oxide is converted to iron phosphate, but the iron is not touched. Get all the parts fitting again (trust me...), then paint with a muffler paint. I then bake mine for an hour or so at 500 (don't do this in the house...) to cure the paint and increase the temperature resistance to 1200F.
The earliest type vents just to the front. It was used on both the 045 and 056. There is at least one other type used on the 045 that I do not have. The cover to the right is just to show how it's vented to the outside - only the left three are part off the set. The outer shell had alread been painted prior, but the tab broke off
The next version vented only to the back. It shares the same BACK shell as the next version.
The final version as used on the Mag2 vents both to the front and the back. The front cover is additionally attached to to the rear with a tab/screw on top. The front cover is not the same as the earliest version, but it can be ground to fit.
Here is the same muffler after bead blasting.
NOTE: The inner vent shell is NOT the same as that used in the early version. They will not fit. if you are buying parts of mufflers, the best way to check is if the outer shell and the inner vent have a screw hole in the top (or if both DON'T have a screw hole), they will match. The right vented cover is the later version (both bead blasted).
The 056 has had 3 different mufflers over time. I went though my box and found all three of them, one of each.
Coked up, rusty, broken ears, dented.. look like junk. But, they are either no longer available, or, in the case of the only one you can get, $136.55, so they get saved.
They need to be degreased (soak in purple cleaner), ears repaired (braze on a washer, then re-drill and grind back to shape), dent's removed (various pounding and "adjustments") and then the rust needs to come off.. The BEST way is to glass bead blast them. If you don't have access to a bead blaster, soak them in Phosphoric acid (NOT Muriatic acid), then descale. Takes a while, but it will work - the ferrous oxide is converted to iron phosphate, but the iron is not touched. Get all the parts fitting again (trust me...), then paint with a muffler paint. I then bake mine for an hour or so at 500 (don't do this in the house...) to cure the paint and increase the temperature resistance to 1200F.
The earliest type vents just to the front. It was used on both the 045 and 056. There is at least one other type used on the 045 that I do not have. The cover to the right is just to show how it's vented to the outside - only the left three are part off the set. The outer shell had alread been painted prior, but the tab broke off
The next version vented only to the back. It shares the same BACK shell as the next version.
The final version as used on the Mag2 vents both to the front and the back. The front cover is additionally attached to to the rear with a tab/screw on top. The front cover is not the same as the earliest version, but it can be ground to fit.
Here is the same muffler after bead blasting.
NOTE: The inner vent shell is NOT the same as that used in the early version. They will not fit. if you are buying parts of mufflers, the best way to check is if the outer shell and the inner vent have a screw hole in the top (or if both DON'T have a screw hole), they will match. The right vented cover is the later version (both bead blasted).
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Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
The muffer(s), part 2
painted....
yep, I squirt a light coat on the insids of all parts - just to stop any more rusting. Might not get used for a long time.
The Mag 2 parts:
All three. Just need spark screens.
painted....
yep, I squirt a light coat on the insids of all parts - just to stop any more rusting. Might not get used for a long time.
The Mag 2 parts:
All three. Just need spark screens.
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fishhuntcutwood
Full wraps and long bars!!!!!!!!!
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You do good work Andy.
Al Smith
Addicted to ArboristSite
Say,on those gummied up rings,you would be surprised at just how well good old WD-40 does for softening the crude up a bit.I buy that stuff by the gallon ,along with massive rolls of duct tape.I've been accused of using bailing wire on occasion but I prefer to call it "universal fastener".
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Tanks.. got plenty..
Three tank to choose from. How hard can that be? All cleaned up - just choose the best paint and touch it up.
Hmmm... Closer inspection revels problem with ALL of them. I can already see one is missing carb studs. These pics show what you can get stuck with. Nothing that can't be repaired, but some are PITA to do.
If you see this type of wear marks on the outside of the carb housing, then there is a problem with one or more of the buffers.
In this case, it was BOTH rear buffers. The flywheel side mount is is slogged out - the case on the left is bad - the right is what it's supposed to be.
The clutch side had a busted screw. Real fun to get out.
Another tank : Looks o.k., but that's not a 5mm thread - more like the result of a 3/16 machine screw wound in. This is the tank with no carb screws - one has a bad thread. Great.. Time-sert time...
Continues:
Three tank to choose from. How hard can that be? All cleaned up - just choose the best paint and touch it up.
Hmmm... Closer inspection revels problem with ALL of them. I can already see one is missing carb studs. These pics show what you can get stuck with. Nothing that can't be repaired, but some are PITA to do.
If you see this type of wear marks on the outside of the carb housing, then there is a problem with one or more of the buffers.
In this case, it was BOTH rear buffers. The flywheel side mount is is slogged out - the case on the left is bad - the right is what it's supposed to be.
The clutch side had a busted screw. Real fun to get out.
Another tank : Looks o.k., but that's not a 5mm thread - more like the result of a 3/16 machine screw wound in. This is the tank with no carb screws - one has a bad thread. Great.. Time-sert time...
Continues:
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Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Tanks continued
Another tank has chain stikes. Not leaking, yet, but this needs JB weld and sanding...
Same tank - cracked thread on mount
So... I choose the tank without the carb mount bolts, fixed the threads, stole bolts from another tank, sanded off, painted and...
There is lots to go wrong with the 045/056 tanks. Many mount points - any can get cracked or broken, and there are many threads that can be damaged. Go over them carefully; it's real easy to miss something.
You can take the fuel tank portion from one assembly and match it up with the carb box side from another, but you'll need to replace the tank gasket. There are two different tank sides, but they only differ in the ground wire location. The gasket is available from Stihl.
Another tank has chain stikes. Not leaking, yet, but this needs JB weld and sanding...
Same tank - cracked thread on mount
So... I choose the tank without the carb mount bolts, fixed the threads, stole bolts from another tank, sanded off, painted and...
There is lots to go wrong with the 045/056 tanks. Many mount points - any can get cracked or broken, and there are many threads that can be damaged. Go over them carefully; it's real easy to miss something.
You can take the fuel tank portion from one assembly and match it up with the carb box side from another, but you'll need to replace the tank gasket. There are two different tank sides, but they only differ in the ground wire location. The gasket is available from Stihl.
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Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Ignitions...
I have three complete ignitions - 2 Bosch, 1 SEM, plus an additional SEM flywheel.
Here's the Bosch - The fan wheel is separate from the steel flywheel.
The SEM - one piece cast flywheel.
The Bosch are failing all over.. typical symptom is no spark after a few seconds to few minutes of operation.
The SEM is basically the same model used on the TS 350/360 and 08 (late non-USA). Generally very reliable.
A quick test of the ignitions on the saw showed the SEM to be bad (great, I just sold one..). Both Bosch ignitions produce spark, but I know one will only run for a minute. The ground wire insulation has disintegrated. This is very common and the first place to look if the saw won't produce any spark or if it intermittently cuts out. I cut the wire off near the module, joined a new wire and put two layers of heats shrink tubing over the joint.
Lining up the timing strike marks turned out to be meaningless as my module mark wasn't even close to the original. I set it in the middle of the range for now and will need to use a timing light/dial indicator to set it.
Ignition installed I'd much rather had the SEM, but if the Bosch works, it will be fine.
Flywheel on and torqued down.
Fanwheel and air deflector installed.
Oh yes.. I also mated the tank to the crankcase. You need to do this before putting on the air defector or you won't be able to get the impulse line on.
The ground wire that joins the crank case to the tank assembly is not wire - it's a braided copper material that withstands the continuous flexing and vibration. I make it from two pieces of solder wick twisted together, and heat shrink on top.
As part of this rebuild process, I'm replacing all the slot head screw (except those holding the tank togther and the fanwheel) with T27 torx. Someone will thank me on the next rebuild...
I have three complete ignitions - 2 Bosch, 1 SEM, plus an additional SEM flywheel.
Here's the Bosch - The fan wheel is separate from the steel flywheel.
The SEM - one piece cast flywheel.
The Bosch are failing all over.. typical symptom is no spark after a few seconds to few minutes of operation.
The SEM is basically the same model used on the TS 350/360 and 08 (late non-USA). Generally very reliable.
A quick test of the ignitions on the saw showed the SEM to be bad (great, I just sold one..). Both Bosch ignitions produce spark, but I know one will only run for a minute. The ground wire insulation has disintegrated. This is very common and the first place to look if the saw won't produce any spark or if it intermittently cuts out. I cut the wire off near the module, joined a new wire and put two layers of heats shrink tubing over the joint.
Lining up the timing strike marks turned out to be meaningless as my module mark wasn't even close to the original. I set it in the middle of the range for now and will need to use a timing light/dial indicator to set it.
Ignition installed I'd much rather had the SEM, but if the Bosch works, it will be fine.
Flywheel on and torqued down.
Fanwheel and air deflector installed.
Oh yes.. I also mated the tank to the crankcase. You need to do this before putting on the air defector or you won't be able to get the impulse line on.
The ground wire that joins the crank case to the tank assembly is not wire - it's a braided copper material that withstands the continuous flexing and vibration. I make it from two pieces of solder wick twisted together, and heat shrink on top.
As part of this rebuild process, I'm replacing all the slot head screw (except those holding the tank togther and the fanwheel) with T27 torx. Someone will thank me on the next rebuild...
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oneadam12
ArboristSite Guru
Looking Good
martrix
ArboristSite Operative
Looking good Lake.
Are those T27 screws the same as the hex screws on my 051? M5 0.9 pitch?
Would I be able to get them in Australia without going through a dealer?
I'd love to use the T27 screws when I put my 051 back together......
Al Smith
Addicted to ArboristSite
Good idea on the torx screws .That was one of the downfalls of the 042/048 where they used slotted screws to hold the crankshaft halves together.I myself use either torx or socket head .Either one is better than a slotted screw.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Looking good Lake.
Are those T27 screws the same as the hex screws on my 051? M5 0.9 pitch?
Would I be able to get them in Australia without going through a dealer?
I'd love to use the T27 screws when I put my 051 back together......
The T27 can replace both the hex and the slotted screws. They are in many lengths, 4mm, 5mm and 6mm, with corresponding pitches. I'm pretty sure the M5 is 0.8 pitch. The heads are taller but it didn't make any diffference on the 056 - just be aware of it when replacing slotted head bolts.
I don't think you can get them anywhere except from Stihl. I've looked... and wish I could find some... You can get them used from anyone that breaks saws apart. Your Stihl dealer might have a bucket of used bolts.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
sILlogger
Addicted to ArboristSite
whenever u split a crankcase and do a repaint. do u paint the inside of the crankcase? i'm thinking about buying a 660 crankcase and building me a saw...don't know how feasible it would be, but it would be a good tinkering project.
Pablo26
ArboristSite Guru
Great work! Can't wait to see the finished product, that is going to be an awesome saw!
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
No.. The paint on the orginal is power coat, and the polyurethane wouldn't stay on the inside.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Oil pump drive and clutch.
Uneventful....
Mounted the oil pump drive gears:
The clutch drum (behind the clutch) - 3/8 8T - rim type. They sure built those clutch parts strong.. No slop or wear at all.
Recoil side cover on - and hey, I have spark!
Next.. problems.. Top covers...
Uneventful....
Mounted the oil pump drive gears:
The clutch drum (behind the clutch) - 3/8 8T - rim type. They sure built those clutch parts strong.. No slop or wear at all.
Recoil side cover on - and hey, I have spark!
Next.. problems.. Top covers...
SmokinDodge
Powered by Cummins
Lookin mighty fine there Lake!
